https://www.gotquestions.org/before-Jesus.html Since the fall of man, the basis of salvation has always been the death of Christ. No one, either prior to the cross or since the cross, would ever be saved without that one pivotal event in the history of the world. Christ’s death paid the penalty for past sins of Old Testament saints and future sins of New Testament saints. The requirement for salvation has always been faith. The object of one’s faith for salvation has always been God. The psalmist wrote, “Blessed are all who take refuge in him” (Psalm 2:12). Genesis 15:6 tells us that Abraham believed God and that was enough for God to credit it to him for righteousness (see also Romans 4:3-8). The Old Testament sacrificial system did not take away sin, as Hebrews 10:1-10 clearly teaches. It did, however, point to the day when the Son of God would shed His blood for the sinful human race. What has changed through the ages is the content of a believer’s faith. God’s requirement of what must be believed is based on the amount of revelation He has given mankind up to that time. This is called progressive revelation. Adam believed the promise God gave in Genesis 3:15 that the Seed of the woman would conquer Satan. Adam believed Him, demonstrated by the name he gave Eve (v. 20) and the Lord indicated His acceptance immediately by covering them with coats of skin (v. 21). At that point that is all Adam knew, but he believed it. Abraham believed God according to the promises and new revelation God gave him in Genesis 12 and 15. Prior to Moses, no Scripture was written, but mankind was responsible for what God had revealed. Throughout the Old Testament, believers came to salvation because they believed that God would someday take care of their sin problem. Today, we look back, believing that He has already taken care of our sins on the cross (John 3:16; Hebrews 9:28). What about believers in Christ’s day, prior to the cross and resurrection? What did they believe? Did they understand the full picture of Christ dying on a cross for their sins? Late in His ministry, “Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life” (Matthew 16:21-22). What was the reaction of His disciples to this message? “Then Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. ‘Never, Lord!’ he said. ‘This shall never happen to you!’” Peter and the other disciples did not know the full truth, yet they were saved because they believed that God would take care of their sin problem. They didn’t exactly know how He would accomplish that, any more than Adam, Abraham, Moses, or David knew how, but they believed God. Today, we have more revelation than the people living before the resurrection of Christ; we know the full picture. “In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe” (Hebrews 1:1-2). Our salvation is still based on the death of Christ, our faith is still the requirement for salvation, and the object of our faith is still God. Today, for us, the content of our faith is that Jesus Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He rose the third day (1 Corinthians 15:3-4).
It all becomes very easy to understand that "dying for our sins" has no real meaning in life. It is all relative to what the word "sins", is. Oh, and don't forget the fact that when we die there is nothing. There's that bit.
Beliefs...... Believe politicians - no Believe church ministers - no Believe the media - no Believe the bible - no Believe in my own abilities and thoughts - no Believe in dreams -no HTF is God going to convince me to believe in him? Oh I know, some white shoe shuffling evangelical beaked nose missionary is going to sell me a dream!
I knew a chick like this in my former church. She was Hell incarnate! https://casefilepodcast.com/case-211-cari-farver/
Overnight, Ted, Stu, Mickey --- I really respect your market oriented posts however you guys are really taking it to Student... but the real FACT is that you guys don't really know for sure that you die into "nothingness". You treat it as an unchallengeable fact because somehow you have come into this closely held belief system. First, I agree in part to your assessment of the church today and the fancy-dan gurus. It turns a lot of people off and you guys are an example of that. Jesus himself was one of the most antireligious people ever. He continually ripped apart the leaders and religious system of His day. Is it really so easy for you to accept that once there was "nothingness" and along came the "Big Bang" (such a scientific term but is all they got). Stephen Hawking, perhaps the most intelligent person of his generation, said that because of the "Law of Gravity" something had to come from nothing -- it was inevitable. OKaay, even his contemporaries point out that this Law governs what has been created and has no creative power of its own. Can you even comprehend nothingness that extended for an eternity of the past. No matter, no electrons, no empty space, no atoms, no molecules, no nuthin. Then this nothingness went bang-bang and here we are discussing the matter. This is perhaps the greatest sin of all --- attributing this glorious creation to nothingness rather than giving glory to God. Paul in his inspired writing of Romans speaks to this and directly to you. He said: "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse". (Romans1:20) Hey I like you guys and right now I feel sorry for you. In your mind, should you be right you still lose, as you will be just like the ant I stepped on yesterday. However, should you be wrong your heart may be filled with terror one nano-second after you die. Kudo's to student... for hanging in there and doing a good job of laying it out for you.
Hi there Illini, been quite a while since I've seen you about! What is really going to bake your noodle is when you probe your mind, and go beyond the Big Bang, and think about the infinite universe. The one that never had a beginning, and never has an end. Is that the one we are in? Hmmm! Seriously? An infinitesimal point with everything in it that just explodes and becomes all that is in .001 femtoseconds? It's ludicrous.
That has never been my point of view, that's from @Overnight . My main beef is this, christians believe God wrote/inspired all of the bible. I say that's pure nonsense, the bible came from human brains. The bible is a great piece of literature, no doubts about it, and full of wisdom but also full of porkies. Here is the problems with christian's concept. "Bible written by God therefore everything in it is right.... Because bible is right and I'm a child of God, my beliefs are right. God guides me and protects me, I'm on the right side, unbelievers are on wrong side. I'm saved, unbelievers off to hell, they belong to the devil. Everything in bible is right therefore I believe everything in bible. Pastors and church and bible are basically God's vessels, I'll take my instructions from them without question. Because I'm christian I'm a slave to christ, do what he says, don't question." Bottom line, christians don't think for themselves any longer, they've become cultists, everyday it's the same bs, "The bible says...." I've been a christian, fundamental and pentecostal for many years, but no longer, been just a fuckin disaster! PERIOD!
Not kudos to student, the guy just parrots what he's brainwashed into. I have yet to hear an orginal comment come from him, all he does is quote the bible, I've read the bible countless times, nothing enlightening, he is part of group think. I'm fighting against christianity because for too long people swallow the rubbish in the name of wisdom, they're scared to say anything in case God strikes them down. LOL