"If I, as quant need help programming, I would definitely NOT give my strategy away to suckers like you people. I would hire a cheap programmer for 3000-4000 RMB in China (yes, the top CS graduates from the best schools in China cost just that per month, I hired several of them and they do an excellent job). " For sure in this case your strategy will be well protected
Algodeal has a system where they give you a little PDF certificate with an MD5 (or some other hashing function, I can't remember) - which you can use to, ostensibly, prove that you gave them certain code. I'm not exactly sure how that would be worked out to prove when someone stole your code - or that you could do much even if you could prove it. They said their processes have been audited and any employee taking code would be fired. However, these aren't bulletproof protections. But, again, I think this all comes down to whether you think you are just going to have a single strategy in your moonlighting quant career, or that you will have several and can afford to build a relationship even if it means hanging yourself out there a little bit while you form relationships.
there is no better protection than keeping the core ideas for yourself. I asked several programmers to code up a testing and trading environment to my exact specification. And I asked them to hook up a sample strategy so that I will be able to easily link new strategies to the architecture. Any other questions? Serious offer, shoot a question or move on...
it does not matter what fancy tools they use, fact is they see your strategy code and everyone is able to copy the ideas or the precise code. I am willing to bet my farm, mother, and wife on this should any of those dudes come out and argue to the contrary. So, would you mind sending me a PM to share one of your 20 successful strategies with me? Seems you got enough to share here, one more or less would not matter to you, would it?
A lot of this talk about people stealing your strategies is poppycock. You could give away all your work to people and 99.99% of them wouldn't even go near it because they don't even have the competence or confidence to system trade let alone execute the trades and then make a judgment about whether the system is still effective in real time. People only want what they think they already have... Businesses succeed because they are dynamic business entities, not because they stole some unkempt degenerates code. Why does Jim Simon's say his code is changing constantly? Because the opportunities in the asset class of the hour, day , week keep changing and they are looking for the best strategy for a given scenario that comes into play, and this is always changing.
really? thats why all the algo houses first attempt to suck your strategy idea before even starting to talk business? Thats why even Millennium Capital Partners requires black box traders to give up the right to their code before they are capitalized? Hmm, interesting thoughts you have here. But maybe this example makes it easier for you to comprehend. Just imagine for one second where China would be today if they did not copy numerous innovative products and ideas no matter how much they were protected by patents and other rights...
Well said, I guess psytrade hasn't heard of patents or how rigurously they are enforced. With "real things" you can at least prove something was stolen because of its physical existence, with trading systems it's almost impossible.
One thing that Algodeal has right is that a lot of this business is about technology and speeding up the process of evaluation. Getting data, backtesting that doesn't have major flaws, comprehensive statistics, etc are all important. They are doing the right thing by focusing on the tech involved. You can use Algodeal to test without sending them a line of code - it's just that the data is limited in that case. If you put together your own data and sent them interesting results w/o testing on their platform, they might still be interested in working with you. But, I think a lot of this is just providing the platform and avoiding the headaches of any interaction with the unwashed masses unless there is something interesting to be had. What I wouldn't mind seeing is a system where you can submit a resume/sample code, an overview of what markets/strategies you want to investigate, and they set you up with a QuantHouse setup for 6 months. Same company that backs QuantHouse is involved w/ Algodeal.
Ok. But its not my fault that Millennium is run by a crook. (This has been reported elsewhere in places like Nuclear Phynance) I found that the fund I talked to that was trolling for systems were actually poorly run and declining so they went trolling for these systems thinking it would get them out of their slump. None of these systems it seems were ever implemented because I read the news in the paper, and this particular fund is doing poorly just the same... They were just asset gatherers. So while you may have issues about your intellectual property, I think the bigger issue is whether the management is even doing their own job... and whether they are traders there or just stuffed animals.
Elefevre - Any updates on what you all are up to these days? I check into the website periodically but haven't seen much lately. I'd still like to see ETF data - I think ETFs are a favorite of many system developers. I may have some time coming up away from other trading projects to do more testing on your platform. However, I wanted to check in and see what you all are up to - are you still just focused on the trading platform and leaving the backtest platform alone for now?