Fact - Europeans go to non-Shengen countries for vacation. Just because Miami and Thailand weren't in the top five (as the article claimed) doesn't change that. But you like to focus on the fact that the top five are different as if that's relevant to the discussion ("Ah HA! This source shows that the top destinations are NOT Miami!!"). That's the problem. Never mind the underlying issue that Europeans won't back down because a country is not in Shengen". Point noted, though. You require someone to say "From my observation" in order for you not to hold them to the fire over something - even if it's completely and totally irrelevant to the greater discussion. Thanks for clearing that up!
You answered my one post with two of yours. Which did you want me to respond to? Tourism after a default - once all of the dust settled - would increase for the same reason exports would. A cheaper drachma would attract more folks than a more expensive Euro. People inside the EU would find vacations/exports cheaper to their more expensive Euro, and those outside would find Greece cheaper because of the difference between their own currency and the Euro, and their own currency and the new, devalued drachma. I thought this would be obvious. The rest of your post is speculation (about Greek assets being sold to the Chinese, Russians, and Europeans avoiding Greece. You are certainly welcome to your opinions, but that's all they are. My opinions are the opposite. The good thing is that we will see who is correct. The bad thing is that it won't happen overnight.
I think we all have stereotypes and prejudice of a certain nature. For example, the type of person we would date or marry - if we would not marry a particular race, then we're a racist of a certain nature, no? I wouldn't feel too bad about it. But blatantly throwing it out there about a particular race and generalizing is problematic. But it's human nature, I suppose.
Two people doesn't make a conspiracy. Just means I'm addressing two folks bent on trolling me. As for what I expected to get out of this thread, I got it in the first post and have had to defend that point for the first 15 or so pages, after which were just responding to flames with flames. That's been the play-by-play. If you would like me to engage into another related topic with you, fine. But if you resort to attacks/profanity and the like, please know that I will respond in kind.
Amid all the bluster, propaganda, and pressure from 'Europe-ex-Greece' towards Greece, we thought the words of Luis de Guindos (of course before he became the status-quo-fulfilling Finance Minister of Spain) were particularly enlightening given Greece's 'demands' and Europe's rebuttal... * * * But, of course, when have previous statements in direct opposition to current policy confidence ever shattered investor faith in policymakers' penchant for Einsteinian insanity. h/t @TrumanFactor
WRAPUP 4-Isolated Greece wants no more bailout money with strings Fri Feb 6, 2015 3:56pm EST * Greece said to want "bridge agreement" on finances * Athens rejects any more bailout money, wants loan authority * Varoufakis empty-handed after European tour * Eurogroup sets Feb 16 deadline for bailout extension By Lefteris Papadimas and Jan Strupczewski ATHENS/BRUSSELS, Feb 6 (Reuters) - Greece's new leftist-led government, isolated in the euro zone and under pressure from the European Central Bank, said on Friday it wanted no more bailout money with strings attached from the European Union and International Monetary Fund. Instead, a government official said, it wanted authority from the euro zone to issue more short-term debt, and to receive profits that the European Central Bank and other central banks have gained from holding Greek bonds. The official said Greece was in effect asking for a "bridge agreement" to keep state finances running until Athens can present a new debt and reform programme, "not a new bailout, with terms, inspection visits, etc.". "It is ... necessary that Greece is given the possibility to issue T-bills, beyond the (current) 15 billion euro threshold, in order to cover any extra needs," said the official, asking not be named. Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis returned empty-handed from a tour of European capitals in which even left-leaning governments in France and Italy insisted Greece must stick to commitments made to the European Union and IMF and rejected any debt write-off. The Athens official made clear that the new government, which came to power on a wave of anti-austerity anger in elections last month, now wanted to forego remaining bailout money that had austerity strings attached: "Greece is not asking for the remaining tranches of the current bailout programme - except the 1.9 billion euros that the ECB and the EU member states' central banks must return." Euro zone finance ministers will discuss how to proceed with financial support for Athens at a special session next Wednesday ahead of the first summit of EU leaders with the new Greek prime minister, Alexis Tsipras, the following day. However, the chairman of the finance ministers said the following meeting of the Eurogroup on Feb. 16 would be Greece's last chance to apply for a bailout extension because some euro zone countries would need to consult their parliaments. "Time will become very short if they (Greece) don't ask for an extension (by then)," said Jeroen Dijsselbloem. The current bailout for Greece expires on Feb 28. Without it the country will not get financing or debt relief from its lenders and has little hope of financing itself in the markets. NO PROGRESS SO FAR Participants said no progress was made at a preparatory meeting of senior finance officials in Brussels on Thursday because Greece and its euro zone partners were so far apart. "It was Greece against all others, basically one versus 18," one official said. Athens' partners broadly lined up in support of a hardline German document rejecting any roll-back of reforms or commitments made by previous Greek governments. Tsipras and his ministers promised in their first days in office to raise the minimum wage, re-hire some sacked government employees and stop some privatisations. This clashed with conditions set by the IMF and euro zone countries, which have lent Athens a total of 240 billion euros ($270 billion). The ECB raised the stakes this week by deciding to bar Greek banks from using Greek government bonds as collateral to borrow from the central bank as long as there is no prospect of an agreed bailout programme. That makes lenders dependent on more costly emergency liquidity from the Greek central bank, which the ECB can stop at any time. Greek bank shares fell further on Friday at the end of a week of wild swings, as brokers cut their forecasts on worries over dwindling deposits and brinkmanship between Athens and its creditors. Ratings agency Standard & Poor's added to Greece's discomfort by cutting its long-term sovereign debt to 'B minus' from 'B', citing liquidity constraints weighing on Greece's banks. Portugal, which emerged from its own EU/IMF bailout last year, joined the chorus of countries insisting that Greece must stick to the austerity medicine as Lisbon had done, pay its debts, and respect past agreements with EU partners. NOT THE EASIEST ROUTE Economy Minister Antonio Pires de Lima told the Reuters Euro Zone Summit that Lisbon had chosen a route "which was not the easiest one" to recover credibility and return to growth, and "that is also our attitude to the situation in other countries". Varoufakis was expecting tough treatment from his partners at next Wednesday's meeting. "It's expected, obviously there is pressure as part of a dynamic situation, we are in a negotiation. But we believe that we will reach a mutually beneficial solution soon," said a separate official from the prime minister's office. Before then, Tsipras will deliver a policy speech to parliament on Sunday and seek a vote of confidence on Tuesday, which he is likely to win easily. Euro zone officials say Greece is free to design its own reforms in line with Syriza's campaign promises, as long as the result is in line with commitments to stronger public finances, debt repayment and reforms. Time to reach a deal is short. Some analysts say Greece could run out of cash as early as March without further euro zone help. "Greece's financing needs over the next five years may amount to 30-35 billion euros," Italy's Unicredit bank said in a research note. "However, if we set the primary surplus at 1-1.5 percent of GDP and assume that privatisations will stop, as requested by the Greek government, overall financing needs would rise to 60 billion euros," Unicredit said. Both Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank said their base case was that Greece would remain in the euro zone, but a rise in deposit outflows had raised the risk of a crisis. (Additional reporting by Jeremy Gaunt and Costas Pitas in Athens and Lionel Laurent in London; Writing by Paul Taylor and Jeremy Gaunt; Editing by Giles Elgood, Kevin Liffey and Toby Chopra)
No doubt that's been the objective all along - to keep the creditors afloat. This is why I giggle when people say the loans to Greece have been directed at the Greek people. True, Greeks need to combat corruption and the like, but only 8 percent going to the people? Wow... This is what Tsipras is railing against in the OP letter....in my observation. Whew...thank God I remembered to put that in there.
so why have Germans, Brits, Scandinavians with their strong currencies pre-Euro (the ones that you accuse of being currency revaluation cheaters) not vacationed in Greece as if there is no tomorrow? You have a distorted image of how people choose vacation spots, I am afraid. Thailand is dirt cheap and there are still high and low seasons. And even during high seasons the country is not overrun. Why do you think that is the case. I tell you why: Because there are non-monetary reasons. One is distance (Americans will not travel that much more often to Greece no matter how cheap the drachma, so that argument only works for those living nearby Greece), another is cultural issues (sex tourism in Thailand may attract your kind but may keep my kind far away [sorry I could not omit that ;-)]), many people want to be truly relax during their vacation and be at a safe spot rather than being pestered by necklace salesmen, painter salesmen, criminal groups, thieves, cheaters such as you can find everywhere in Greece (go to a popular public beach in Greece and you know exactly what I am talking about, basically Kuta/Bali in Europe). There are tons of reasons I could add that make Greece really not so attractive to draw more tourists than it on average already has regardless of the value of the drachma.
of course you meant to say its German race, and you are Jewish and you feel offended. I am deeply sorry that I damaged your unshaken belief that Germans are not allowed to use the term "Jew" and are not allowed to be polemic nor ironic about other races. I deeply apologize for my naughty behavior and in advance apologize for any other German imperfections you may come across in the future. P.S. You still have not moved on to a single other topic than "Greece will go bankrupt...yes...it will go bankrupt". Wait wasnt there a tard saying "Small traders lose, they just lose". Are you two the same?