Hello: I would like to comment on the issue of copyright and intellectual property. This is in response to Guy's post suggesting that it is okay to code another person's (Elders) indicators. First, let me say that legally (and I have looked into this at length) it is not enough to simply refer to emails and public comments to justify coding and re-selling another person's intellectual property. What is needed is the "express written consent" of the author. This means that Guy should have written to Elder asking for permission and he should have obtained WRITTEN permission to do so. Absent that written permission, Guy is free to do whatever the hell he wants with the indicators for his own use, but should he decide to resell the resulting work product, he is then in violation of Copyright Laws in both the United States and Canada. This is the same situation as with Samson77 a couple of months ago, where he (Samson) obtained copyrighted material from a vendor (Linda Raschke) and without permission, offered, transmitted and/or facilitated the sale of the material over the internet without the consent of the author. Although he screamed and yelled ("I will sue you, I'm not kidding in here"). After the laughter died down, I noticed that he never followed through. Anyone care to guess why? I can tell you why. In this society it is easy to intimidate most people with the words "I'll sue you". No one wants to go through the costly process of getting an attorney to defend them in court, even when they have done nothing wrong. Occasionally however, these idiots run up against someone who is either a lawyer themselves, or has an attorney in his/her family. In this case, my dad's firm offered me the service of four very good attorneys who specialize in intellectual property law. After talking with them for about a half hour, the bottom line was "make my day". I am commenting not because I dislike Guy or what he tried to do. I think its possible that he may not understand the issues surrounding copyright law. Before this time I did not understand them myself. If that is the case, I hope he will use these comments to put things in their proper context, and perhaps in the future he can find a way to get to a mutually beneficial agreement with an author to do the work and re-sell it. Thanks, Steve Edit: By the way, Guy if you are reading this, I am not comparing you to Samson, who in my opinion is a scam artist. I have read many of your posts and I think you try to add value to the work of others. I certainly wish you well and am not trying to criticize
Steve, What about people like me who code lots of things (including I recall some of elders indicators once for Tradestation) but don't sell it - I just post it and people may or may not use it as they choose. Also, what about all the codings and sellings of old indicators like Larry William's ones? Or the ones published in TASC or Active Trader? And finally (lol) what about the commercial organizations who've flattered me by copying my layouts and setups?
Hello Kiwi: Again I know a bit about this because of the conversation I had with my attorneys. You have to understand that for most folks, it is not financially viable to "go after" violators of the copyright law. Take the example of Samson for instance. Although Linda Raschke could go after the guy and win, she doesn't because it is costly. What she does instead is to keep track of the guy and wait until he tries to again transmit, facilitate or sell her material for a fee. The current codes call for penalties in excess of $125,000 IF the material is sold for a specific price, and in some cases there can be imprisonment if the judge finds the violation egregious or the person has no money (like Samson). In other words, the person who "owns" the copyrights to a material can choose to "let it slide", or they can come after you if they choose. All they have to do, is to prove they own the material, and that they have suffered a loss as a result of your action. What you are talking about is really small time stuff (again much like Samson), so probably (although I cannot guarantee it) the author will not pursue you. If however, you were to decide to sell the material or for some reason, your version of the indicators became popular and people started to pay you for it, you might find yourself the object of a suit. While I think I am essentially correct, I would refer you to your own attorney to verify what I am suggesting. I think I have the broad strokes right. Good luck Steve Edit: As regards commercial entities who copy your work, you have to establish your "copyrights" and then spend the money to hire an attorney and go after the that entity. If they are making significant money and you can prove they are using your work as the basis for it, you may have grounds for legal action. Talk to your attorney to see if you have a viable suit.
Thanks Steve, Interesting. My location would provide a further challenge of course. Regarding others copying my stuff I choose to treat it as flattery - I did the stuff for free use in the first place so I like to think it just shows how good the work was
Man, you really found value in "High Prob Trading"? Given that you've been on the board for over four years, I find that highly surprising. Personally, I thought the book was a load of crapola in nowhere near Tharp's league. It's really only of value to a complete n00b. I really can't see anyone with over a years experience in the market learning anything important from it.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I disagree with you. It appears that Link has done far more actual trading than Elder or Tharp. I suggest that anyone thinking of buying or reading it, read the reviews on Amazon.com. 47 reviews, 4.5 stars average. Only the better trading books have that high a rating with that many reviews. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cu...50677-4739250?_encoding=UTF8&n=507846&s=books I have no connection with Link.
Not really. It's just what people (noobs, mostly) think is a better trading book (but noobs, despite writing most of the reviews, really aren't in any position to judge). Even Jay Yu's "Underground Trader" got rave reviews when it came out, but that book is truly trash. Link's book is okay, and I don't really disagree too much with anything he writes, it's just that it's so basic, so lacking any real "meat". It certainly fills a market niche (the biggest one - noobs), but there's not really anything there which would elevate above any other run-of-the-mill "how to trade" book. (Calling it "High Probability Trading" disguises the fact that it's a generalist book, lacking any specific information related to making high percentage (probability) trades.)
What a great front for an old con like Guy Ellis to sell his snake oil under the auspices of DeltaT1. Create a forum (mypivots.com) for traders to make yourself look legitimate! This is a stinker with all the earmarks of a con: 1) The indicator packages don't work. Never have, never will. In fact, they performed so poorly that the daily results stopped being published in 2004. They are the same old tire worn indicators that you get for free when you subscribe to TradeStation or eSignal. The same old wine in a brand new bottle. 2) Anytime one of the forum members questions the value of the indicators, or Guy Ellis' wisdom or judgment those posts are deleted and the member gets locked out of the forum. So the only people posting are friends and "yes men" to Ellis. 3) The forum reeks from the stench of get-rich-quick scam vendors (none of which will provide trading statements) who advertise all over the forum. The irony is Ellis claims to combat the very types of scammers that he gladly collects advertising dollars from, so we know where his true interests lie. That's right, in his wallet, not yours. 4) He has shills post in the forum and then surprisingly "catches" them and alerts his members to stay away from them to gain respect and credibility for his scam-busting prowess. This is one of the oldest tricks in the conman book. 4) There was a rumour circulating that Ellis was running a futures advisory bucket shop in Washington and got nabbed by the regulators who asked the Dept. of Immigration to deport him back to his native country South Africa where he now lives far away from the scam cops who lack jurisdiction. Bottom line: Stay away from this forum and whatever you do, don't send any money for these worthless indicators.