But wouldn't that mean that the SPY is less trendy as well? It seems to me that directionally at least the S&P 500 index (and its derivatives) is probably the most trendy market out there for position traders. Where you talking intra-day?
I agree, but my point was that individual stocks can move as sporatically and without notice. However, as was mentioned Elder was probably refering to the pit traded S&P500 contract, which was much to big to handle for most retail traders.
"he was referring to the pit traded S&P," What a moronic statement. Once again i drop in the forums after 100 times promising myself i never will reture. (Big snow outside so nothing to di ) Austnip, you apparently have failed to look at the NQ relative to the ES chart, 5 minute lately. They are as lockstep with each other as ever. The financials are effecting the WHOLE stock market because the government is still lost for a solution. The fact remains that the modern financial system blew up in their face and consumers are holed up and locked up the wallet. The way to trade the NQ relative to the ES is very simple,,,,,,,,,,,use the same rules as you do in ES but DOUBLE the STOP LOSS points and lenghten the profits accordingly. Why is that so hard to visualize? for the other clowns that have problems trading the ES, steel yourself and please soldier on and do not give up, keep feeding the account to show you are a man and accept a challenge. Myself and the others that know what we are doing there will really enjoy it as we spend your money. PS: intraday ranges (pit times) Fri ES = 26, NQ = 31 Thursday = ES = 22, NQ = 36 Wednesday = ES = 18, NQ = 33 To double the STOP LOSS in NQ relative to ES is a MAX STOP, good traders are out of a max stop loss before it is hit as pure as as IVORY soap, 99 9/10ths of the time. Case closed
<i>"you apparently have failed to look at the NQ relative to the ES chart, 5 minute lately. They are as lockstep with each other as ever."</i> hogwash... pun intended. Any veteran trader who looks at both symbols and knows what he is looking for spots the subtle but significant differences between ES and NQ behavior in a heartbeat. The eminis are related but unique. Just like any siblings we know. ES is most liquid for a reason: the biggest money pros trade there. If ego = accomplishment is high on a retail trader's list, ES fits that personal need. If max $$ from same number of contracts traded, smoother equity curve desired, NQ and to some degree TF offers that edge. If the ES were superior all around, no other emini indexes with solid volume would exist. Now would they? For that matter, corn and soybean futures are one helluva lot smoother and directional intraday than ES will ever dream of being. To each their own... that's what makes a well-rounded market
Austnip, those charts just confirm what i said. I dod not mention about which one hit a pivot point or not. My contention still stands. I do respect your posts so not saying you are wrong, just saying they both are being influenced by the general tone of the bear mkt. your chart proves what i have been trading and observing lately. Pivot points are meaningless relative to what i see. Have a good weekend. PS: The ES is liquid and superior to other index because many index funds are tied to the S&P 500 index, thus their are more hedgers in that contract. PS: Opening gaps are also meaningless to my plan, i open the day with an ORB trade that starts after the first 5 minute bar completesd. Opening gaps are meaningless and useless, as we all know the NQ should never be traded on globex before pit opens because it is way to THIN.
<i>"I do respect your posts so not saying you are wrong, just saying they both are being influenced by the general tone of the bear mkt. your chart proves what i have been trading and observing lately. Pivot points are meaningless relative to what i see. Have a good weekend."</i> Likewise personally... in every regard. Hopefully my sarcastic humor translated properly, some things are tough to interpret thru the web :>) My point about the NQ nuances is this: when it emerges from consolidation or reversal, it tends to go directional while ES tends to backfill repeatedly. In other words, the NQ hits an entry point and either moves against for quick stop or moves in favor and releases from threatening the stop. ES tends to bob sideways longer in consolidation, often pulling back deeper one last time to clear stops before finally heading in expected direction. Friday playing the gap fill and playing the pivot tap high-odds targets worked textbook in NQ, failed to resolve in ES. They generally move thru the same path... but NQ moves more directionally from point A to B, i.e. pause to pause. The ES movement is more congested and staccato due to myriad sideways pressures on that symbol. All of them will quicker take our money than give us more. The NQ may be gentler versus ES because it tends to get away from entries = stops quicker than the S&P does. I (long ago) reached the conclusion that choice of what to trade is highly personal and individual. The longer I stay in this game, the more open-minded I become
Moronic?? Say What? I got the same problem; Big Snow and damned cold. Elder in his book was referring to the Pit traded S&P contracts as opposed to the e-mini ES. It's been a while since I read the book but I remember him saying that you'd need $250,000 to trade one contract and that an electronic mini contract was available but he wasn't sure if it would catch on. He didn't recommend the S&P for beginners.