According to this senior MIT engineer the governments investigation is a farce: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5HTp9QwFLI Silverstein admits it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAgoI948GGI What is your answer to this? You don't have one do you? Deal with it!
And here's the rebuttal in one of those websites that you supposedly read - http://www.911myths.com/html/madrid_windsor_tower.html The Madrid Windsor fire is sometimes cited as being relevant to the WTC collapse, but in reality there are major differences between the two situations. No plane flew into the Madrid Windsor Tower, for instance. It didn't sustain any structural damage prior to the fire beginning. (And for those who keep emailing us to say that neither did WTC7, reports of the damage there are covered here.) The Madrid Windsor Tower was much smaller than the WTC, too, at 32 storeys. More significantly, the design of the Madrid Windsor Tower was entirely different to that of the WTC. The building totalled 32 storeys, with 29 floors above ground and three below. A concrete core and concrete frame supported the first 16 floors. Above that was a central support system of concrete columns, supporting concrete floors with steel perimeter columns. An additional feature was the presence of two 'technical floors' - concrete floors designed to give the building more strength. One was just above the ground level and the other at the 17th floor. http://www.concretecentre.com/main.asp?page=1095 No reliance on steel frames here, the core was mostly concrete. And what happened to the steel that it did include? The steel columns above the 17th floor suffered complete collapse, partially coming to rest on the upper technical floor. http://www.concretecentre.com/main.asp?page=1095 Yes, it failed. Other photos reveal how the concrete was all that was left on the upper floors. The same story suggests itâs only the key design differences from the WTC that kept the Madrid Windsor Tower standing. An investigation is underway between Spanish technical agency Intemac and UK authorities including Arup Fire, the University of Edinburgh and the concrete industry including Cembureau, BCA and The Concrete Centre. Preliminary findings suggest that a combination of the upper technical floor and the excellent passive fire resistance of the tower's concrete columns and core prevented total building collapse The fire is significant in terms of its potential similarities between the collapse of the building's steel frame above the 17th floor and the experience seen at the World Trade Center. Notably, one of the recommendations of NIST's interim report on the World Trade Center disaster is for tall building design to incorporate 'strong points' within the frame. http://www.concretecentre.com/main.asp?page=1095 Others confirm the advantages offered by the Windsor Tower design. Dr. Pal Chana of the British Cement Association demonstrated the relative likelihood of floor collapse in a steel versus concrete framed building, using the vivid example of the Madrid Windsor Tower fire which raged over 26 hours on 14-15 February 2005. This former landmark office block of 30 storeys featured a concrete core throughout, but with concrete columns up to the 21st floor and steel columns between the 22nd and 30th floors. Remarkably, despite the intensity and duration of the fire, the concrete floors and columns remained intact however, the steel supported floors above the 21st floor collapsed, leaving the concrete core in-situ and exposed. http://www.concretefireforum.org.uk/main.asp?page=0 So what does the Madrid Windsor Tower fire show? That steel columns will collapse in a fire, that concrete is more fire-resistant, and, uh, thatâs about it. Itâs hard to see how any of this, especially in such a different building design, can have much meaning for the WTC case.
Did you actually look at your own post? The pictures in your post ALL show that after the fire building's steel frame REMAINED vertical and INTACT. This is another example of a steel framed building NOT COLLAPSING from fire. You just proved my argument you fool! Give it up you sheeple.
LMAO !!!! He's got an ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING degree from MIT. And he's been practicing family medicine for the last 25 yrs ! Hardly something that would qualify him as a structural engineer. Jeezus you're dumb. http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/Confronting the Evidence/ Biographical Note: PlaguePuppy is the nom-de-net of Jeff King, a 60 year old former electrical engineer and more recently a Family Practice physician. I graduated from MIT with an SB degree in 1974, with a combined Biology-EE major (this was before a Bio-Medical Engineering Department existed), and before settling down to do clinical medicine I worked for about eight years in electronics and electro-mechanical engineering. For the past 27 years I have been working full time as a family physician, doing office-based primary care here in the rural San Joaquin Valley of central California. Yep, you were right and Hapaboy was wrong. You're definitely NOT a CTer..... ROFLMMFAO !!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, are there really still people in this world who don't know that 9/11 was a joint U.S.-Israeli false flag attack? Talk about la-la land. LOL
You really are a pathetic and pitiful individual. You don't have any evidence of a steel building collapsing from fire. You continualy evade Siverstein's admission of pulling building 7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAgoI948GGI You don't deal in facts do you? So instead you try to paint an MIT engineer as a fake in a desperate effort to hang on to your pathetic argument. Go and get a life you wierdo!
That's right, it didn't collapse from the fire, and it gives the reasons why it didn't - inclusion of a concrete core and the concrete "technical floors". But steel frame buildings HAVE collapsed from fire alone, so to claim otherwise is a lie: http://www.debunking911.com/firsttime.htm Contrary to popular belief September 11, 2001 was not the first time a steel framed building collapsed due to fire. Though the examples below are not high rise buildings, they make the point that fire alone can collapse a steel structure. The McCormick Center in Chicago and the Sight and Sound Theater in Pennsylvania are examples of steel structures collapsing. The theater was fire protected using drywall and spray on material. A high rise in Philly didn't collapse after a long fire but firefighters evacuated the building when a pancake structural collapse was considered likely. Other steel-framed buildings partially collapsed due fires one after only 20 minutes. The steel framed McCormick Center was at the time the World's largest exhibition center. It like the WTC used long steel trusses to create a large open space without columns. Those trusses were unprotected but of course much of the WTC lost it's fire protection due to the impacts. "As an example of the damaging effect of fire on steel, in 1967, the original heavy steel-constructed McCormick Place exhibition hall in Chicago collapsed only 30 minutes after the start of a small electrical fire." http://www.wconline.com/CDA/Archive/ 24ae78779d768010VgnVCM100000f932a8c0____ [Note this article has several comments from engineers who back the WTC collapse theory.] "The unprotected steel roof trusses failed early on in the fire" http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/disasters/mccormick_fire.html The McCormick Place fire "is significant because it illustrates the fact that steel-frame buildings can collapse as a result of exposure to fire. This is true for all types of construction materials, not only steel." wrote Robert Berhinig, associate manager of UL's Fire Protection Division and a registered professional engineer. He also discusses UL's steel fire certification much more knowledgably than Kevin Ryan. He is an example of one more highly qualified engineer who supports the collapse theory. http://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magazine/02_d/berhinig.htm From the FEMA report of the theater fire, my comments in [ ] www.interfire.org/res_file/pdf/Tr-097.pdf On the morning of January 28, 1997, in the Lancaster County, Pennsylvania township of Strasburg, a fire caused the collapse of the state-of-the-art, seven year old Sight and Sound Theater and resulted in structural damage to most of the connecting buildings. The theater was a total loss, valued at over $15 million. pg 6/74 The theater was built of steel rigid frame construction to allow for the large open space of the auditorium, unobstructed by columns... The interior finish in the auditorium was drywall. The stage storage area, prop assembly building, and prop maintenance building were protected with a sprayed-on fire resistant coating on all structural steel. The plans called for the coating to meet a two-hour fire resistance assembly rating. The sprayed-on coating, which was susceptible to damage from the movement of theater equipment, was protected by attaching plywood coverings on the columns to a height of eight feet. The walls of the storage area beneath the stage were layered drywall to provide a two-hour fire protection rating for the mezzanine offices [the WTC used drywall as fire protection in the central core] , and sprayed-on fire-resistant coatings on the structural steel columns and ceiling bar joists supporting the stage floor. pg 15/74 The two theater employees told the State Police Fire Investigator that when they first discovered the fire they noticed that the sprayed-on fire proofing had been knocked off the underside of the stage floor bar joists and support steel. The fire proofing was hanging on the wire mesh used to hold the coating to the overhead. The investigation revealed that the construction company's removal of the stage floor covering down to the corrugated decking involved striking the floor hard enough to knock off the sprayed-on protection, exposing the structural steel and bar-joists in the storage area. [The theater's spray-on fireproofing was newer and more modern than at the WTC, The theater was only seven years old. If striking the floor during renovations was enough to dislodge it imagine the impact of a 767] pg 16/74 Temperatures of 1000° F can cause buckling and temperatures of 1500° F can cause steel to lose strength and collapse. When the heat and hot gases reached the stage ceiling they extended horizontally into the auditorium, causing the roof to fail all the way to the lobby fire wall. The fire also extended horizontally from the stage to the elevated hallway, causing the structural steel to fail and buckle in the prop assembly and prop maintenance buildings pg 17/74 Once the heat of the fire caused the structural steel to fail in the storage area (aided by the damage to the sprayed-on fire protection during renovation), interior firefighting became too hazardous to continue. The truck crews ventilating the roof noted metal discoloration and buckling steel. pg. 21/74 The two hour fire resistance-rated assembly in the storage area beneath the stage was damaged during the stage floor renovation, leaving the structural members unprotected from the ensuing fire. pg. 26/74 Buildings constructed of steel should, in effect, be considered unprotected and capable of collapse from fire in as few as ten minutes. Fire resistant coatings sprayed onto structural steel are susceptible to damage from construction work. The impact of fire and heat on structural steel members warrant extreme caution by firefighters. pg. 36/74 Unless the steel members are cooled with high-volume hose streams, the fire's heat can rapidly cause steel to lose its strength and contribute to building collapse. pg. 37/74 Other Fires In February 1991, a fire broke out in One Meridian Plaza - a 38 story office building in Philadelphia. The building was built during the same period as the WTC and had spray-on fire protection on its steel frame. Despite not suffering impact damage, authorities were worried it might collapse. "All interior firefighting efforts were halted after almost 11 hours of uninterrupted fire in the building. Consultation with a structural engineer and structural damage observed by units operating in the building led to the belief that there was a possibility of a pancake structural collapse of the fire damaged floors." http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/txt/publications/tr-049.txt About 2 years later, the NYFD was concerned that a steel framed building that partially collapsed during after a gas explosion might collapse entirely due to the resulting fire. http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/TR-068.pdf Part of a floor of an unprotected steel frame building collapsed in Brackenridge, Pennsylvania on, December 20, 1991, Killing 4 volunteer firemen http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/TR-061.pdf Part of the roof of a steel framed school in Virginia collapsed about 20 minutes after fire broke out http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/tr-135.pdf
Yes, his electrical engineering degree in no way qualifies him to make an intelligent argument about why 1,2, and 7 collapsed. On the other hand, if you can find a qualified structural engineer, that would be another thing. Do you have anyone like that?
DrEvil, leave these dummies to their Zio-brainwashing propoganda. They want it. They need it. They love it. They can't live without it. It's like a drug. LOL