cloug and metooxxx: i'm in total agreement w/ both of your last posts, if this is the way you see it then our disagreement was more from differing interpretations of the phrase in question than differing beliefs.
I have just looked at this thread. Its' title caught my attention. As a 53 year old I am qualified to comment The market in the UK had interested me for years but it wasn't until I took early retirement and moved out of the city that I actually bought shares. My first foray into share buying was a result of reading newspaper tips. Bad move but no real harm done. Next I joined a broker and followed their signals. Not too bad but I burnt my fingers by not obeying their stop loss numbers (This was with options) Paused for breath and read many tomes on TA and trading in general. Into the fray once again via spread betting for penny stakes. Readers in the US may not know much about spread betting but suffice it to say spreads are wider than market brokers (Thats how they make a profit) and when trading the Dow each spread bet company widens their spreads well beyond publicised minimums, a price bias if you like. One can spread bet US shares or any global instrument but it seems only UK shares have the tightest spreads close to market price. Eventually I found it possible to make money spread betting. More interestingly I find the biggest gains come from using simple support/resistance and trend lines and holding a position over several days. Be able to go short was a revelation to me. From my present standpoint I note that US brokers are far cheaper than UK ones, the world of e mini's and single stock futures will merit attention later on. Contracts For Difference are another UK vehicle worth studying. Why do I do it? So I dont have to endure some tosspot telling me I'm too old for another job, the challenge, the independence and the cash that buys it. Now, after reading all the books and web posts it seems the critical factor to be mastered in trading is oneself, followed by money mangement, and stop losses. And the learning goes on, avoiding the snake oil vendors along the way Any new trader or Old Git wanabee trader would do well to scour this site, looking up old posts , learning to spot the charlatans and holy grail vendor. There is a wealth of experience donated freely by the real traders on this board. You are a fool to pass it by. Toby UK
Net profit: You can have security if you are a profitable trader who already has enough money to maintain that security by never touching the amount of money set aside for said security. Darkhorse: I agree so much with one of the last comments you made that I forgot to touch on. It is also true that too many people judge a person's inherent worth as a human being by their job or wealth. I am no better a person whether I am rich or poor, a janitor or a CEO, and am certainly no better or beneath anyone else based upon these criteria. The only thing that might make one person better than another, in my opinion, is what KIND of person someone is and how he or she lives his/her life compared to the other person. If one person is a lying, hypocritical, two-faced weasel and coward, and another is quite the opposite, in my opinion (and plenty of highly intelligent people would no doubt argue otherwise) the latter is a better person who is worth more than the other, regardless of their socio-economic class. Of course someone who invents or discovers something that is of use to our society (whether by adding knowledge or by offering something we can use day to day), has done something especially valuable for our community, although it is rare that someone does this without important help (good teachers, mentors, colleagues, family, etc). This is but one imporant thing that they have offered society (along with how they live their life, raise their children, etc), and in all honesty might make them an especially valuable person in our community, but still does not make one's life inherently or morally superior to another's.
Traders by nature have a hard time setting aside capital, not to be touched for security. Security as a trader comes from having enough capital to keep your bets small in multiple noncorrelated trades. I don't judge a person by their net worth, I come from a working class family. However, a poor person finds it a lot harder to do what he feels is right, when he lives paycheck to paycheck and has a family to support. As traders we produce nothing beneficial to mankind, we just reallocate the wealth.
Have to disagree w/ this one. Without short term players to provide liquidity and risk transfer, investors would soon find the world's financial markets as illiquid and opaque as real estate, drastically reducing the attractiveness of equity and debt as an investment.
It doesn't matter why we do it, capitalism as a whole is founded on self interest. Man needs no justification to make a buck as long as he going about it honestly. The point is that traders provide a useful service to the investing community at large, they are not just parasites.
Whether or not we, as traders, provide a "service" of some benefit to society does not interest me much...I am more concerned about how I can "avoid" destroying others lives with my career...I enjoy the fact that the majority of people who enter the arena know what they are getting into when they do it, so it does not cause me alot of stress questioning whether or not I am a good person for doing this or that... I would have much harder time living with myself if I were dependent upon "robbing Peter to pay Paul" so to speak... (Oh and I should probably anticipate someone coming along and telling me that I am, in fact, robbing Peter to pay Paul by trading in the markets...)...To this I say, give it up
I don't know about you guys, but we make a living picking off the market makers, who make a living picking off the public. Maybe we will always just be bandit traders, oh well...