Ag trade ideas

Discussion in 'Commodity Futures' started by TraDaToR, Aug 24, 2014.

  1. TraDaToR

    TraDaToR

    Interesting question. If there is a tangible price floor when it comes to calendar spreads( Carrying charges = storage + insurance + financing in non-VSR commodities ), it is hard to calculate an absolute price floor for a given commodity. The ultimate one is when nobody is able to produce in large quantities, ship it abroad and turn a profit anywhere in the world, and it never happens given the volatility of the currency markets. For any commodity, the most important dynamics in establishing an intermediate price floor are perhaps the price of related products. Here, for arabica coffee, perhaps it can't sustend an unlimited premium to Robusta. One day or another, buyers will turn to the lower quality if arabica is too expensive. This is perhaps where you can find not an absolute price floor but a stronger one...( Edit : You have got a nice illustration of this in the previous post with London Cocoa vs NY one ).

    By the way, you may check the CRB commodity almanachs with monthly charts on 50 years. Production costs and price floors are almost visible but they vary during history.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
    #1651     Feb 25, 2018
  2. Good points all around. Yes, not necessarily looking for an absolute price floor, but a potentially stronger floor area. An area where downside velocity is less likely. Price from this area may move lower, but likely in a slower, more measured move. Whereas this price area could have more potential for a sharper, higher velocity upside move.
     
    #1652     Feb 25, 2018
  3. TraDaToR

    TraDaToR

    Actually, since we are talking commodities, at any given time there is more upside price risk than downside. The volatility/velocity increases when prices go up contrary to equities. Here calls are quite always pricier than puts. But to come back to your coffee trade, I don't know if that current support is fundamentally driven. The brazilian real can also change the situation a lot. Seriously, you should have a look at monthly or even yearly charts and try to find price floors across decades( Perhaps adjusting to inflation is a good idea ). Also profit margins( cattle, soy crush, oil cracks, corn/ethanol) are interesting to study to find when trying to find a long term bottom.:)
     
    #1653     Feb 25, 2018
  4. TraDaToR

    TraDaToR

    Out @ 110.75. Happy about this long term trade.:) Initially had a closer target but decided to hold until expiry when the cold snap/dryness came.
     
    #1654     Feb 26, 2018
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  5. TraDaToR

    TraDaToR

    Out the rest @ -4.75. It didn't go parabolic but it was still a good trade.
     
    #1655     Feb 26, 2018
  6. They have limited downward potential compared to others products because as you say they are storable & marginal cost is not that different between producers (contrary to oil for instance). So there is a bottom somehwere. I remenber that I read that in US corn it's around 80 % of the cost of production (be also careful that charts are in a given currency even if producer can be in another).
    However, even if you have the bottom, there is the contango ! If market is stuck on this bottom which is often the case for months if not years, you are going to pay the carry at every roll..

    On the long term, carry is more important than price move. That what make a commodity's positive or negative return. On high contango commodity, like cbot wheat, it's really difficult to be long..
     
    #1656     Feb 26, 2018
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  7. So it's not the mosft difficult task to find where are the low, but it's difficult to make money out of it...
     
    #1657     Feb 26, 2018
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  8. TraDaToR

    TraDaToR

    HRW crop conditions deteriorating again in Kansas...
     
    #1658     Feb 26, 2018
  9. Cat88

    Cat88

    [​IMG]
    Some very exciting price movement in cocoa at the moment with another bullish candle posted on Monday. The price has moved up in a very direct way towards the top highlighted in the chart from October 2017 which was very close to the fire made in March 2017. I expected it to be slower going in the run up to significant resistance at 2240, however there have been only limited pullbacks which at this stage is a good sign. Given last night's candle I'm looking to add to my position which I will either do at the open tonight or intra-session if my entry order does not get filled close to yesterday's close.
     
    #1659     Feb 27, 2018
    TraDaToR likes this.
  10. TraDaToR

    TraDaToR

    And this a loss again. Out@ 13.05. Crappy outright trading lately for sure.
     
    #1660     Feb 27, 2018
    Cat88 and i960 like this.