Fact:The overall rate of suicide (firearm and non-firearm) among children age 15 and under was virtually unchanged in states that passed and maintained âsafe storageâ laws for four or more years. Fact:Among young girls, 71% of all suicides are by hanging or suffocation. Facteople, including children, who are determined to commit suicide will find a way. There is a documented case of a man who killed himself by drilling a hole in his skull by using a power drill. Should we require background checks and <s>gun</s> tool safes and or trigger locks for power tools? You know, if it saves only one life and that sort of thing.
Now more general question.... open to lucrum or anyone. lets say you have done some shooting but never owned your own a gun until recently. Now lets say you have a mossberg 500 combo for home defense. and you had the option to purchase (right now) a new glock 34 9m California legal. would you buy that Glock for home defense... going to the range and working on become a better shot... sort of for the fun/ zen / potential competition shooting. --- note... nice stat work luke.
I like the idea of a shotgun for home defense, especially a pump action. Shot doesn't penetrate like bullets do, so collateral damage is less likely. I took my 40 year old Mossberg shortened the barrel and replaced the original wood stock with a synthetic pistol grip/folding stock. The problem with hunting lengths is that they're unwieldy in close quarters. The reason for the pump action is the distinctive noise it makes chambering a round. Fact is most confrontations are resolved by never firing a shot and the sound of that pump action alone may very well keep you from having to shoot an intruder in the first place. I don't own a Glock but their reputation goes without saying. I'm a .45 ACP fan but there is certainly nothing wrong with 9mm. On the rare occasions anyone asks my advice on handguns for self defense. I always ask what experience they have and how much time do they plan to practice. If they have little or no experience and or they plan on little or no practice, I always recommend a revolver instead. Not as "cool" as an auto but it's better to have 6 shots always at the ready vs 15 in the mag in a jammed gun you don't know how to unjam - in a big hurry.
No there would not be as many suicides or family / friend homicides if a gun isn't in a house. Which also helps validates my decision. If my guns aren't in the house a teen isn't going to use that gun to kill himself, so using suicides from firearms as part of the statistics is correct. And the last part is condictory what do you think validates means? Everyone has to make their own decisions and if the facts validate that for me then the validation is in fact...a fact. The gun discussion isnât an all or nothing issue. There are valid arguments for having a gun in the house for protection and valid arguments not to have a gun in the house, especially with teens, children and where there are domestic problems. Whichever way a person choses to go he should take a serious look at both sides, which I did. And in the cases of home owners with a firearm stopping an intruder, most of those would not of resulted in injury (my best guess) to the people living in the house, so you have to take that in consideration when you look at the number of times a firearm was used to stop a crime. I can look at this issue from both sides because it isn't religion to me, just another decision to make.
How do you reckon people committed suicide before the invention of firearms? Having read this part three times, I still don't know what you mean. Great! When do you think you might start? Looking at the issue from both sides that is.
thanks.... not that I plan to be shooting in the house... but if you wanted ammo to stop bad guys but not go through walls... what type of shot gun ammo would you buy. how much....? and if you were looking for shit hits the fan ammo... what would you buy and how much.
For shooting indoors/very close range and hoping for minimal penetration/collateral damage. I'd go with a no 8 or no 9 shot. Some might argue there is more man stopping power with larger shot. And they're right, but at very close range. It's not going to matter much. Especially if we're talking about a 12 ga. If it's strictly for home defense you don't need much. A single box of 25 will last a lifetime. Studies of law enforcement shootings indicate that on average. Each shooter discharges less than three rounds each. If I knew I was going to a gun fight and a shotgun was my weapon. I'd prefer either buckshot or slugs, better yet some of both. How much? Depends on what kind of scenario you're preparing for. A local riot? Maybe a couple hundred rounds. A zombie attack? Borrow a friends pickup truck, and don't forget some gun cleaning supplies as well.
There is a lot of debate about which gun or guns to use for various home defense/insurrection/zombie situations. There is no one perfect answer because what is optimal varies with the situation and with who is going to be using it. One principle I like for a home defense weapon is that it has to have a simple manual of arms. Thatr means no complicated safeties, etc. Hence Lucrum's advice for a revolver. Everyone, even liberals, knows how to operate one and they won't jam or malfunction. The downside is limited capacity. I favor the Glock pistol, specifically glock 17's. The 17 was the original Glock and many pros think it is still the best. Glocks do not have a safety or an external hammer, relying instead on a trigger safety, essentially a second trigger. Your wife can grab it, point it and fire it by squeezing the trigger, provided it is kept with a round in the chamber. 17 rounds of 9 mill is a nice thing to have in a bad situation. I wouldn't be willing to make the tradeoff Brandon did in this thread and go with a 1911 as my primary gun. As cool as a 1911 is, it is a 100 year old design with less than half the capacity of the glock. My second choice would be a Smith and Wesson M&P model, which is more or less a Glock clone. The mossberg 500 is a classic home defense weapon. As Lucrum pointed out, barrel length is key in a tactical shotgun. A lot of pros would be quite happy to have that weapon in a home invasion or if you manage to barricade yourself in a safe room. Shot choice is vast, but ecen bird shot at close range will be very lethal. Ammo manufacturers are coming out with special home defense loads now that have reduced recoil and some have unusual loads, like a large ball bearing and smaller shot combined. If your wife or even a kid is likely to be using the shotgun, a 20 guage is not the worst idea in the world. Less kick, less noise but retains immense stopping power at home defense ranges. Insurrection situations are probably best handled with an AR- platform. More accuracy, longer range and much higher capacity than a shotgun. I saw a feature on a line of AR type weapons made by a company called JR that use pistol caliber ammo. Rock River and some other manufcturers also sell Ar's chambered in pistol rounds. typically they use Glock mags, so you can actually get a 9 mill rifle with a 30 round glock mag. Again, it is a tradeoff. Arguably, it is a better home defense weapon than a 5.56 chambered AR. The bullet will be twice as heavy as a 5.56 round and have more velocity coming out of a rifle than a pistol. You give up range, which is not that important in home defense. In terms of overpenetration, ie going through walls, the 5.56 round, particularly jacketed hollow point (JHP), will be safest. It will typically fragment going through drywall. Buckshot and large pistol calibers will easily penetrate several layers of drywall. I'm not sure how birdshot does. I would guess it would go through at least one layer of drywall, but it clearly won't go through as much as buck will. A deer slug would do the most damage by far.
http://whichgun.com/pistols I only just found this site, but it looks like it might be useful for someone unsure of what they want.
thanks to both you and luke. I am sure I am not the only one learning here. 6 months ago... I had almost no experience with any of these options or variables. The info on the first few pages was over my head. now the idea of an ar with 9mm for shtf scenarios seems brilliant especially if you are already buying 9mm for a pistol. The good news for me is that the guys and gals in the sporting goods store have not been steering me too far off course. They suggested the mossberg 500 with 2 barrels - one for hd and one for sport or hunting.