I know what you are saying but look carefully at what I said before: "There's no reason everyone can't be employed and have enough mediums of exchange to get all their needs plus some." AND "Although there is nothing free about getting enough food and shelter and other needs in exchange for what you do." Look at the word 'need', do you need funds for retirement? How much and what for? Part of the reason one has to retire is because they can't do something to get things. Illness, weakness, all the things associated with old age. Most people still enjoy doing some things, just not as much and perhaps different things more suitable to that point in life and for that particular person. The whole idea of always having to keep up and paying someone the least possible for their current skills is a fundamental problem in some ways. It is part of the reasoning that leads to constant efficiency without ever decreasing the need for everyone to work more. Struggle and strife is not the point of life. If not even right now today, very soon we will have enough automation technology for everyone to have what they need and golf memberships too (to generalize). Then what, should people make stuff just because they system says they MUST have a job to survive? At what point does "progress" evolve from developing ones IQ to developing ones EQ and in which ways does the current system fail to promote that? At what point do we see a society that has few arguments, no fighting, no rape, therefore very few laws, about 1 prison that is never used, etc etc ... BUT, doesn't have modern medicine and is still figuring out herbs, the wheel is only used for barrows and cars don't exist, crude forms of bikes maybe, no technology but everyone is happy -- at what point do we see THAT society as more evolved, more progressed than ours? There is some inequality because as new things are developed not everyone has them, but the ratio is more of a 5:1 or some other system, not anything close to the extremes we see today. At some point if we want people to stop being greedy, we need a system that does not reward greed and doesn't assume people always will be greedy, therefore need to be 'motivated' by an invisible man in the sky, errr, I mean invisible hand (I bet that will get some comments!). Admittedly I kind of got off track from the original point, but it relates. Certain FORMS of capitalism have no use for old people. All countries use capital, it depends on what purpose it serves, who controls it, etc.
Matthew 19:23-24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "It is very hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!" AFAIK there is no one definition for Kingdom of God, keep that in mind. Also, rich and poor are not always measured how we think of it. If everyone is (relatively) equally rich are they also (relatively) equally poor? I would suggest in a world ruled by Jesus's teachings, it would be understood that to be "rich" one has to take advantage of someone else. If money is seen as the ability to live, then you have to give them someone less ability to live then you get in order to be rich. Otherwise, everyone would be relatively equal and everyone would be equally rich or poor. I believe from what I have read so far that this is in line with his messages. If not that's ok, I'm no scholar or anything. So the answer to the question depends on the definition of poor and wealthy.
Quote from traderwann: Struggle and strife is not the point of life. Quote from God: (Genesis 3:19) In the sweat of thy face thou shalt eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Who do you believe?
That may be slightly out of context and I'm not sure of your point. AFAIK what the quote says is that due to some context you are not giving, at that point in time, and with a lot of missing information, mankind will have to work the ground to get food. That does not mean the entire goal and point of life is continuous constant never to be solved struggle and strife, therefore, I don't understand your point at all.
Charity translates to something like brotherly love, affection, good will, love, and benevolence. It does not translate into giving someone money. An economic system that does not allow for everyone to get as much as they need + some, is not charitable. I agree with the above, but not if it is used as an excuse to avoid charity. That is the OPPOSITE of what Jesus encouraged and taught. For proof, just read anything he said.
traderwann, The point is that mankind is judged and cursed. I personally have no faith in mankind. No matter what we do or how we view goals...life...etc...Our condition does not determine our salvation. There is only one way out. Since this thread has its title in a way that would permit me to post...Well, Nitro refers to what is necessary for holistic harmony for all. Again, This will not be achieved and anybody is in denial that does not believe that... if they believe in the God of the Bible and the prophecies to come. Read what The Lord Jesus Christ said about the matter: St. John 3:16: For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. ES
My suspicion is that all this stuff works great on paper, but when implemented in the real world, man has shown to default towards [some] of the seven deadly sins: wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony. Of course, neither does the current system stop man from spiraling into this either. Take a look at the amount of obese people in the US. Take a look at men becoming addicted to porn instead of real women. Take a look at the amount of greed that is the system. I suspect that the one thing that an economic system cannot deal with is sloth. It can deal with obese people, envious people, lustful people, proud people, greedy people, but is simply will not cope with slothful people. Wrath is the one that brings us to an endgame and is by far the most dangerous, and I fear no system anytime soon will help with that one. As man is mostly an economic animal, wrath has been kept in check for the last fifty years after two horrific world wars, more or less by raised worldwide standards of living and reasonable leisure/down time. As soon as people are pushed to extremes the way the current system is doing either consciously or not, we will see LOTS of wrath, and I don't mean riots and OWS.