“Ayn Rand and Jesus”

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by nitro, Oct 3, 2011.

Is Ayn Rand and-Jesus at odds with each other at its core?

  1. Yes. We must either choose morals or economic well being.

    13 vote(s)
    22.0%
  2. No. It just takes hierarchical modes of thinking to unify our entire belief systems.

    25 vote(s)
    42.4%
  3. I don't know.

    4 vote(s)
    6.8%
  4. I don't care.

    17 vote(s)
    28.8%
  1. nitro

    nitro

    I see no contradiction. On the other hand, there are so many modules to a person, that it is nearly impossible to pinpoint who a person is. This is a modern (I think) theory of psychology that is gaining ground that I strongly believe in:

    http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3323120#post3323120

    As to Steve Jobs, he had many "modules" of thought, including being spiritual and rich and probably not afraid of death, but on the other hand, much that contradicts this picture, i.e.,

    http://gawker.com/5847344/what-everyone-is-too-polite-to-say-about-steve-jobs
     
    #21     Oct 9, 2011
  2. nitro

    nitro

    I am coming to the conclusion, albeit slowly, that the course of events taking place are completely natural, and that we should actually embrace it. Let me explain.

    You see, if in fact the tens (hundreds ?) of millions of people were appeased by crumbs being thrown at them, they would probably go back to the miserable existence of being corporate zombies and pretending that having to work 9+ hour days with 2 weeks a year off is life. Taking the blue pill no longer works.

    Instead, things will get much much worse. The top 1% will continue to amass wealth, at an ever increasing rate, the people in the middle terrified of hanging on to what they have, many slipping beyond that point where it takes exponentially more effort to get out of poverty. The resentment this will create will build, decade after decade, until either something truly wonderful happens, or something truly horrible. Either way, deconstruction through destruction will occur.

    Hinduism teaches that before you can create, something must first be destroyed. There is a calm that comes over you when you realize that non of what we see should be surprising, that in fact it is the natural outcome of a set of systems, one piled on top of another, without any idea of what the mindless machine is doing on human scales.

    The people that occupy wall street and other powerful venues are so poor at articulating what they want, and yet they know what they feel and see around them no longer makes sense. Many of them have already taken the red pill, but realize that their is no escape from having to live the life of a slave to pay rent and other necessities - forget about having children, that will be for the rich only soon, and if you do manage to afford one, their future has been sold to the machine. But forget about children, first we have to learn to save ourselves. So, any job will no longer suffice, but a job that offers the ability to live a reasonable life outside of work is the true new American dream. Unfortunately, there is no middle ground in America because you either sacrifice your life to work, or you are homeless. Mistakenly, we assume that the people that have wealth are at fault, when in fact they may be as powerless as anyone else to change the system - not even the President of the United States has the power to change the system (he risks being called all sorts of names, most likely socialist or communist) - the system has nearly achieved a life of its own, and it is likely beyond the power of even extremely wealthy people like Warren Buffet to even nudge it. No, the only way is probably some sort of apocalyptic future. I see no other way. I hope I am wrong and that I have missed something, which is very probable...

    Hopefully, that experience will survive into the history books for future generations to analyze and make sense of, if for no other reason to not repeat it.
     
    #22     Oct 10, 2011
  3. you make no sense.

    what is really going on? well the wealthy elite has amassed so much wealth, the consumer-driven economy can no longer expand, as the rich don't actually consume as much as middle class or poor class. Thus the middle and lower class took out credit loans etc. Now we have a huge credit bubble and bubbles collapse into depression. During depression you wil have revolution, dictatorship, and most likely wealth distribution. That's it.

    I don't know why you're rambling on about a blue or red pill, but you have 16k posts so it makes sense for you to be rambling.
     
    #23     Oct 10, 2011
  4. I think you repeated the story of Buddha, though not in order - rich (born into wealth), spiritual enlightenment, no fear of death.

    By modern terms, Jesus would be a free-loader. I mean, why not be a successful carpenter if he had the skills? Instead he went mooching off of people. Pilate probably saw him as a harmless loser and would have told him to get job.
     
    #24     Oct 10, 2011
  5. nitro

    nitro

    "Equality and Efficiency"

    "Efficiency: The Big Tradeoff, Arthur Okun argued that pursuing equality can reduce efficiency (the total output produced with given resources). The late Yale University and Brookings Institution economist said that not only can more equal distribution of incomes reduce incentives to work and invest, but the efforts to redistribute—through such mechanisms as the tax code and minimum wages—can themselves be costly. Okun likened these mechanisms to a “leaky bucket.” Some of the resources transferred from rich to poor “will simply disappear in transit, so the poor will not receive all the money that is taken from the rich”—the result of administrative costs and disincentives to work for both those who pay taxes and those who receive transfers.

    Do societies inevitably face an invidious choice between efficient production and equitable wealth and income distribution? Are social justice and social product at war with one another?

    In a word, no...."

    http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2011/09/Berg.htm

    These guys are stuck on efficiency and production, and not the overall quality of life of the individual. What good is endless efficiency if it doesn't reduce our need to work to exist? HUMAN BEINGS ARE NOT MACHINES! These people don't get it. Until the accounting takes the amount of free time an individual has to himself and his family (or even to continue to educate himself to keep up with the demands of corporations for more technologically savvy workers), corporations and workers will always be at odds with each other, "efficiency and equality" notwithstanding.

    Unions gave us the weekend. Since then, they have done nothing to reduce the amount of time we spend working TO EXIST.

    It used to be, kill all the lawyers. It is soon to become, kill all the economists.
     
    #25     Oct 10, 2011
  6. nitro

    nitro

    <object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/coDtzN6bXAM?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/coDtzN6bXAM?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>
     
    #26     Oct 11, 2011
  7. +10 pts for including a Sneakers reference in any argument.

    nitro wins.
     
    #27     Oct 12, 2011
  8. nitro

    nitro

    "A Long, Steep Drop for Americans' Standard of Living"

    "Think life is not as good as it used to be, at least in terms of your wallet? You'd be right about that. The standard of living for Americans has fallen longer and more steeply over the past three years than at any time since the US government began recording it five decades ago..."

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/44962589
     
    #28     Oct 19, 2011
  9. piezoe

    piezoe

    Yes, of course. But, sadly, we are not, as a people, capable of recognizing that.
     
    #29     Oct 19, 2011
  10. nitro

    nitro

    #30     Nov 7, 2011