A Word About "Arbitrage"...

Discussion in 'Trading' started by bone, Mar 12, 2021.

  1. JSOP

    JSOP

    One of the most important premise for arbitrage is that the two different products have to be extremely similar to the point that they are completely interchangeable, e.g. buy/sell a cross exchange rate vs. buy/sell one direct exchange rate to the common currency and then buy/sell to the other direct exchange rate to the same common currency right away with no carrying cost to take advantage of any price differentials. The currencies are exactly the same and can be obviously used interchangeably. Any time when you introduce other costs and extra fees that's levied on one product but not the other like carrying costs, storage costs, you change the product itself and it reduces the arbitragibility between the two.
     
    #11     Mar 12, 2021
  2. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    ??
    I know a self made billionaire who made his first 50 or so million in a commodity arbitrage that had nothing to do with fungibility - actually it was the opposite of fungibility.
     
    #12     Mar 12, 2021
    eternaldelight likes this.
  3. JSOP

    JSOP

    The price differential must be really large to be worth it then. Who's the billionaire? Is it somebody who's known?
     
    #13     Mar 12, 2021
  4. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    you wouldn’t know him as he’s one of the thousands of private company billionaires in the US that never get on the Forbes list.

    but you would be shocked if I told you some of the assets he owned.
     
    #14     Mar 12, 2021
  5. JSOP

    JSOP

    What assets does he trade to arbitrage? Can you give a rough example of a trade that he does? Some assets may seem to be totally different but might have similarities and interchangeability that people don't see or realize that allows for profitable arbitrage opportunities.
     
    #15     Mar 12, 2021
  6. bone

    bone

    Two "little guy" arbs that very much come to mind were: 1. A Bank Desk Trader in Chicago in the 90's who saw an arbitrage opportunity involving the CME Yen futures - he quit his Bank job and traded it himself. Made several million, then got clipped pretty good. Walked away with 4 million. and 2. A guy in the very early days of the CBOT Municipal Bond futures contract in the 80's. The original contract specification itself had a design 'flaw' that he took advantage of. He did really good and then stopped when the CBOT changed the contract specification.
     
    #16     Mar 12, 2021
  7. traderjo

    traderjo

    Bone.. yes true many people use the word "Arbitrage" very loosely.. specially I have seen it used in the Indian trading market to explain futures calendar spreads :(.. having said that there used to be true Arbitrage possible in Indian market because unlike Say Singapore or Australia India (like US) has more than one active stock exchange and many stocks are dual listed... between BSE and NSE
    any way weather it exists any more I don;t know + the state taxes are big Burdon there
    Any way coming back to pure arb .. is it true that big boys can arb between 1SPx 5 ES contracts ( to be traded in after US hrs as SP then is available on Globex)
    Using a very advance spreader ( perhaps more advance then TT or CQG)
    I tried it on sim on TT and CQG ( a synthetic spread) in Sim even at retail level it showed profits but in reality what happens only exp people can say!
     
    #17     Mar 12, 2021
    tayte likes this.
  8. There are plenty of true arbitrage opportunities across the market. These days they are usually small and require manual work (which is why they exist) but they are there for the taking by anyone who has the desire the get involved. For example, off the top of my head, I can name 4-5 products that have arbitrage opportunities and are too small for an institutional player to get involved in.

    This said, most of apparent arbitrages are in reality statistical and involve risk in one or another way. If you don't think through the risks, frequently you find out about them the hard way.
     
    #18     Mar 12, 2021
  9. CyJackX

    CyJackX

    Are box spreads considered arbitrage?
     
    #19     Mar 12, 2021
  10. Only if you can borrow or lend money elsewhere at different levels :) e.g. if you can borrow cheaper than Fed Funds
     
    #20     Mar 12, 2021