Its clear you follow me around like the stupid fu**ing little psycho bitch you are I know you want my ass really bad, you flaming homosexual... And thats cool and all... but just for the record... I dont swing that way. Ok longshot? This is like the 100th time you have followed me to a thread to harass me just because your little bitch feelings have been hurt You already won the vote for stupidest dumb ass on ET. Congrats! Now go away peace axeman
I thought the Marine did a fine job giving us the "true" story. Unless of course you are suggesting that what he said isn't true (which is what I think). JB
ART: >Those who expect a marine who experienced the trauma of >war as described, who participated in the killing of civilians >while following orders should be held to Turok's standards >of reason and consistency? >Hogwash. You may (or may not) be misunderstanding my position. In a split second situation I give every benefit of the doubt to the soldier. Innocents are bound to be killed in war and as a vehicle speeds toward a checkpoint I *expect* it to be "lit up". I also would be heartbroken as a soldier to find that the car was full of unarmed civilians. My "murdurous thug" beef is only with the statement: >They received pamphlets, propaganda we dropped on >them. It said, "Just throw up your hands, lay down >weapons." That's what they were doing, but we >were still lighting them up. This is not a vehicle rushing a checkpoint for whatever misguided reason. This is as it is described -- participants informed, understanding and following instructions and yet he claims to have lit them up. As Axe points out, the reasoning is not mine but the US Military's. JB
Hold on a second there my friend. I don't disagree with you at all as far as the administration setting an awful tone. I don't disagree with you about the "chickenhawk" comments. I don't disagree with you about the order givers giving fucked up orders. I also agree with you that the guys that are risking their lives, are, for the most part blameless for what is going on. BUT...only for the MOST PART. They are Not completely blameless. Certainly not in circumstances like what the Marine this thread is about was describing. You cannot compare the soldiers that are on the ground in Iraq with the conscripts of the Vietnam war. Virtually every soldier on the ground in Vietnam was drafted into a nightmare they wanted no part of. There were of course some exceptions.....a very small minority of enlistees and even draftees who wanted to fight. But they were an insignificant number, and even those small numbers diminished as the war went on. By the end of the war, no one wanted to be fighting. No one wanted to be the last guy to die in Vietnam....by that time they were dying over the shape of a table in Paris. The only non draftees in Vietnam fighting towards the end were officers. And of all the foot soldiers, it was those officers that probably LEAST wanted to be there. I could go into life expectancy counted in minutes and seconds, but most of us (even those who weren't yet born) know how bad things were then. But today, the soldiers in Iraq...particularly MARINES are there because that (fighting) is what they signed up to do!!!! Every enlisted soldier (they all are enlisted) was given a choice of jobs to do BEFORE they were sworn in. Does this make them less responsible for their actions? No. What the all volunteer army DOES accomplish is it prepares the soldiers to do their jobs very well. They are highly trained to do what they do. It may be stressful to fight. No doubt about that. But with proper training, it is far less likely for a soldier to lose his (or her) cool under fire. But this case of the Marine that was interviewed....first of all, he is a MARINE! Trained to be IN COMBAT. Heavily trained in the use (and that includes the NON USE of weaponry). But more relevant to my point that you disagreed with is that he talked about shooting unarmed civilians who HAD THEIR ARMS IN THE AIR!!!! This is what they were instructed to do. They did it. They were no clear threat. Yet they were shot. So put the actions in perspective. Highly trained Marines shooting at civilians with their hands in the air is a far different thing than a Vietnam era drafted infantry soldier suffering from "stress syndrome" and shooting little guys in black pajamas. Or even women and children who they KNEW were fighting on behalf of the Vietcong (usually by coercion)....but no matter the "whys", those "civilians" were a clear threat to the foot soldiers. They were the enemy. And we were theirs to a greater degree as compared to what we are facing now in Iraq. Yes, we have enemies. Seemingly more every day which is attributable to a great degree by the very poor planning (lack of planning) by our "fearless" leaders. But still, while responsibility goes up the chain of command, each soldier does have a responsibility to do his or her job as they were trained. And to abide by the RULES OF ENGAGEMENT as they were taught long before they ever set foot in Iraq or any field of battle. Compare apples to apples. Not Marines of 2004 with drafted infantry soldiers of 30 years earlier. Peace, RS
Oh my, Max401 pontificating on the truthfulness of a war story. (Same story for the 2000th time at that....Hey Max, how about something not so stale....You hear about the chads in Florida in 2000? You hear about the attack on the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001? You hear we attacked Afghanistan in 2002? You hear about the Cubs not getting into the World Series in 2003?). Poor Max. Nothing at all to say, so your obsession rises it's (very) ugly head. Compelled to post. But no words come to mind? No problem. A "Max Attack" is always in the breach of his small guage abusive mind. His favorite subject is always there. (No, Max is not obsessed). Bwahahahahaha!!! Let's see what Max has had to say lately: A negative post by Max? Shocking! Negative post...lo and behold directed at something I said. (no obsession here). Out of nowhere, but gee, about guess who? (no obsession here). Clear purpose to this post. Challenging .....you guessed it...MOI! Who'd of guessed?...(no obsession here). Negative again? Surprise surprise. But holy cow! Not directed at me? Well Aphie was also stalked off the ET site by Max. (no obsession here either). So there you have it. Four days of valuable contributions by Max401 to the ET forums. Left one out. A cut and paste of the nauseating Anne Coulter. Max can only express himself with negative comments about others (then cry about ad hominem attacks...his favorite expression, which I am prepared to hear about as soon as he reads this). But when it comes to IDEAS, Max lets Charleton Heston with tits do his talking for him. At least Anne herself understands she is in show business. Max idolizes another talking head that says whatever makes money for her. Not necessarily what she believes (like his other "favorite pundits" LOL). Peace Max, your kind words are always a welcome sight to us all. Your contributions are major. Without your quality posts, ET wouldn't be half the show it is. RS
My statement: "I don't see how you can claim that his is delusional and a liar in view of posts that you have been replied to. Apparently it is you squirming without reading?.... Sooooo your opinion and for the record: he is either delusional or a liar, and later he is also a merderous thug regardless following orders or not." Your statement: "Here you clearly are claiming there is an inconsistency in Turoks statements." Bwaaahahahaha what a fucking moron you are. Ok I see again how screwed up your brain is... WHERE in my statement above, I am "clearly claiming there is an incosistency in Turoks statements"?????????(your quote) where??? where you numbskull???? You pose no valid argument, your logic is flawed, you are no challenge, there is nothing to dodge. Yer hurting, gasping for air, just bitching on threads, get a life, give up that rock of yours..... OK OK OK You are killing me man, (no offense if you are woman), SO I DO CONCEDE here for all to hear: I CONCEDE that you are just about the greatest moron trolling ET chitchat I ADMIT your "superior intelligence" and "flawless reasoning" gets you a white padded room in the nuthouse. I CONCEDE that if you were not an asshole you wouldn't be anything. I ADMIT, your sole purpose in life is to bitch and attack others. I FULLY ADMIT, that you have screwed up yet another thread on ET among the countless others. I ADMIT I cannot fight your monkey logic, so now get lost. I ADMIT, I'm wrestling with a pig, even tho it's fun at first, it is getting old, and the pig likes it too much. Soooo I have to leave you alone in your pigpen I ADMIT I fully expect you to rant and rave, twist everything around again, post some more crap, move over to another thread, bitch there, come back, rinse and repeat. Ahhh yes, I fully expect to be "attacked" in the main..no problemo... standard mo... There!... you see, you won your fight, you got your price, I conceded, now move along little boy, yer mommy is calling, pills are ready.