A shoulder to cry on

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by hjkl, Jul 9, 2005.

  1. giannos


    Well, I must say this has been a great thead so far..I agree with almost everyone on here and ya, this is a tough game. But how relevant are stats?..I'm a young trader who is just finally starting to get a "feel" for the markets. I've been doing this for almost a year now. I simply LOVE it!...There are people who want to always throw odds at your face. I was a good boy went to school, got my finance degree, then ended up running bars for 7 years..Go figure, I was told over and over again the %90 of all knew business's go under within the first year..However in 7 years I opened 3 bars and did very well..And surprisingly for not knowing much about the bar industry, I never went "under"....I perservered with HARD work and most importantly DETERMINATION!...Stats to me are nothing more than numbers that people LOVE to quote ( excuses when things get tough )..If you want to succeed in life and in this game, you have to put your WHOLE heart and your nuts out there everyday..Yes, you need a plan, yes you need money management, yes you need skill and you need DESIRE. The markets are not here for people to get rich. They are here for the rich to swallow more and only get fatter...My point is ( to the original poster )..everyones experience will differ, everyone will rave their system is the best...And EVERYONE will throw odds at you...You can overcome any odds in life if you really want to.....Hang in there, any only bite off as much as you can chew.
    #51     Jul 10, 2005
  2. ozzy


    In my old career as an Electrical Engineer I dreaded waking up in the morning to go to work. You basically had to push me out of the door to go.

    With trading, I wake up day in day out excited to go work (even after the giant sting I've experienced over the last year). I spent 15+ hours this weekend testing some ideas, you would never have caught me putting in extra time willingly in the past.

    I guess the point i'm trying to make is that you will know in time whether or not this is for you and yes it defenitely is not for everyone.
    #52     Jul 10, 2005
  3. Trajan


    Yep, I worked a few jobs before starting as a runner on the exchange. I dreaded going into work everyday, but even lowest job on the floor was better than some mind numbing pointless desk jockey position. I actually tried leaving trading 5 years ago. Couldn't do it, I came back and glad I did. I can't really calculate how time I put into it since so much of what I do is related to trading. Howver, I probably spend 2 to 3 hours a day doing volaitlity analysis and scenario testing outside of the normal market hours.
    #53     Jul 10, 2005
  4. giannos/ozzy

    Well I certainly respect the fact that hard work and determination can accomplish a lot, the trading business is slightly different because it's a zero sum game.

    It's me vs you at the end of each day so that requires SKILL and knowledge.

    If Goldman Sachs has deep pockets to buy the brightest and the best minds in the business then what chance do I have selling into them?

    If you knew how much preparation went into an average trade from those people that are truly successful in this business long term, you might be very very shocked.

    So do not make the mistake of just thinking hard work is enough, knowledge and experience are the tools in this game as well as the hard work.

    It never ceases to amaze me how many traders just wake up have a coffee and say ok let's see if I can make some money today.

    I'm not implying that is the case for you two but it is for many.
    #54     Jul 10, 2005
  5. Choad


    I've been working as an EE for 20 years. It's still interesting enough for me, but it sure gets in the way of trading! :D
    #55     Jul 10, 2005
  6. giannos


    Agree 100%......Hard work is NOT enough, but if a trader has a DEEP PASSION for this biz, he/she will inevitably put in countless hours of preperation into each and every trade..And as the markets are constantly changing, Experience is priceless. Something a trader can not get for free....

    #56     Jul 10, 2005
  7. ozzy


    Your right it can be interesting depending on what you do and where you work. I followed my dad's footsteps (without really thinking what I wanted to do). He's sixty and still designing, its his hobby/passion, its in his blood, but unfortuneatly not in mine.


    #57     Jul 10, 2005
  8. Preparation means very little (well - nothing IMHO) when bad habits get in the way.

    In general, I am not sure what you mean by preparation.

    Do you mean prepare in the sense of an entry point if the price gets extended (S/R, flag break, etc)? This is common sense, know the key price points and have a plan of action if those price points are reached.

    Otherwise PREPARE to do nothing and be prepare to patient.

    What about the statement "Let's see if prices move in a stable manner today" akin to your "let's see if I can make money today". Same difference IMO. Some days are just too risky to trade. The market maybe offering money but it will come at high risk.

    Maybe I'm not doing something right when I say the above and force myself to trade only definable price movements. Otherwise I use discipline to do nothing. I do not call this preparation though, I call it being prepared to use an "appropriate" strategy on the fly since I know anything can and will often happen. Doing nothing is a strategy.

    Again, I'm coming back to thinking that preparation means nothing until you execute and then you need to be mentally "prepared" to exercise strict discipline. Discipline is a muscle, you make stronger muscles by using them.

    You practice good discipline (I don't think there is a way to prepare for it).

    Well maybe one spends their entire trading career preparing to be disciplined and doesn't actually practice exercising discipline and hence are consistently losing...

    Not sure what I mean by all this, I just don't think you prepare to have good habits, you have to earn them.

    #58     Jul 10, 2005
  9. Ah, Jack, I do dearly love it! You don't understand me, and I don't understand you. But it takes you 20X the number of words I use to express your misunderstanding of me. PM me any time and I will be on a plane to Tukson to buy you and the missus the best dinner your fair city has to offer, which in my experience ain't much. Post an execution report, and I will buy y'all dinner all week. Including Kokomo and Bogart. I will even teach you how your precious patterns depend on the price of oil for their validity. And how they depend on buying and selling pressure, which doesn't seem to be in your arse-nal. Mike.
    #59     Jul 10, 2005

  10. Mike

    Do you think that the traders in Goldmans Institutional department wake up and sit around patiently waiting for a pattern or some kind of signal everyday?

    It takes me 2 hours each evening and another hour in the morning to review possible trade scenarios as well as all the key factors on my charts and I'm a nobody!

    I assure you that Institutional traders with much deeper pockets for research and more sophisticated tools are far more prepared then me.

    The only thing that is different is they need larger moves then me. that is the only reason I can still compete.
    #60     Jul 11, 2005