In the event that France were to be so foolish as to exercise its right to vetoing any action against Iraq, don't be surprised if that means, literally, the demolition of NATO. (Only to be thence replaced by a new, similar organisation which excludes France ?) I doubt however that it will come that far as there is little doubt that France would be aware of the consequences (of exercising their right to veto). Chirac may have made his earlier decision based on pacifying the many Arabs living in France but it is hard to imagine that he would choose to be the one in history who was responsible for changing France into france. Anyone any comments on this ? freealways.
a. Chit Chat make room for one more b. yes many Arabs live in France c. Thank god for France and Germany. They have both lived through World War II and can see precisely where the consequences of this insane chain of events will lead.
the concept of veto means more than the necessity to try again in a different format. excluding france would mean for the remaining parties that all treaties and procedures from then on are worthless - and I think the US administration will consider five times to smash that glove into the face of its allies. the real threatening thing is that there are two opponents with their back against the wall ... peace
Make no mistake about it, NATO is 80% U.S., 10 % UK and 10% everybody else. If France was kicked out of Nato it wouldn't matter worth a hill of beans. I don't think anybody is worried about Napolean being reincarnated and taking over europe.
Yea right, thank got for Germany, which started WWI and WWII which destoyed probably like 70mln people. They could not stop their Hitler until it was too late, now they do not want to stop Iraqi Hitler either. They'd rather wait until he destroys NY, LA or Tel Aviv for that matter, then they will act. Thank god for France too. They could not fight Germany when it mattered. They folded in a matter of days and had to be rescued by USA, England and Russia (indirectly). Now they make it their responsibility to object absolutely everything coming from english speaking countries. They objected Iraq I, they objected Afghanistan. They just cannot get over the fact that they are no longer center of civilization, they no longer matter politically, millitarily and culturally. They blame JWB that he is after Iraqi oil. And of course their position is based on pacifistic and idealistic principles, not on the fact that they have billions invested in Iraqi oil. They were the ones helping Iraq build their nuclear reactor (destroyed by Israeili raid) and probably do not want the truth about it to become known. And what are these peaceful french doing in Ivori Coast. I saw it on TV a couple of days ago - an Ivori Coast person with a sign "USA, come and save us from French treachery."
there is something true in your post IMO. and there is something strange within it as well. The former poster tried to say IMO that france and germany knew from experience what war means for a country. The quality of your answer mentioning that germany had a hitler and france was defeated makes me think that you are of pure, good american blood. - "... they no longer matter politically, militarily and culturally." I am a little afraid that by "...no longer matter ... culturally" you intend somehow that the US are now the center of culture in the world. I can assure you that whenever you are faced with critique on the US mentality that there is no need to go far to find out why. Just read what you wrote. I think everybody has different interest with Blair searching for good relationships to the US, France trying to protect investments, Schröder trying to win elections and Bush trying to feed the powers who finance him. ... peace
don´t worry about France and NATO. France as an independent nucler power has always only marginally participated in the alliance and never really cared about it all too much. Rumsfeld has already destroyed NATO during the past year, and it has lost its purpose 12 years ago anyway. so what ?
skeptic123: `Thank god for France too. They could not fight Germany when it mattered. They folded in a matter of days and had to be rescued by USA, England and Russia (indirectly).´ the USA refused to help France in may 1940 and maintained friendly relations with the Vichy regime later. England `folded´in a matter of days on the Dunkirk beaches, leaving behind all her weaponry and the largest part of the courageously fighting French army that thus made the British row/swim-away possible: `The nine days of Dunkirk was a withdrawal of land forces less all their equipment across the English Channel, following many military disasters in France. The German conquest of France was complete. The evacuation owed much to the unstinting bravery of the French troops fighting at the Dunkirk perimeter and to seven hundred brave small craft almost a hundred of which were lost in the evacuation of 385,000 troops, more than 100,000 of them French, were ferried to the waiting ships or taken direct to England to fight again another day. Boats not built for war, which came from rivers and coastal waters of England and some who came to England as refugees - 49 sturdy schuyts from the Netherlands. There were river launches, old sailing and rowing lifeboats, yachts, pleasure steamers, fishing boats, working sailing barges; fireboats without so much as a compass, many of which had not been to sea before. Some chartered in the name of the King, some were commandeered without notice and given hand written slips for a receipt by the Naval crews. Everything that could float in England some boats making three or more journeys on their own amid dive bombing and strafing by the Luftwaffe. Unlit and unable to comprehend, or respond to naval signals by night, they risked being sunk by their own side. The small boats negotiated the shallow waters off La Panne on the French-Belgian border, where no deep draught ships could approached and extracted the brave exhausted British Expeditionary Force, the French Army and a few thousand troops of the Belgian Army from the beaches of Dunkirk. We should not forget the debts we owe to those who have gone before us.´
France has made itself irrelevant to any issues that go beyond western europe. They deserve to be ignored and they will be.