Good simulators are just a shade away from a live trading platform with regards to fill accuracy and position tracking in real time. I think that was the point of the first post in this thread. This is quite a step up from paper trading. As for the psychological aspects, I think too many lump it all in and say that live trading is so much different than simulated trading because of the emotions. The one point I want to make is that the emotions of live trading aren't all just about the risk of money loss. There is also the uncertainty about whether the method you are using is sound, whether you know what the heck you're doing, and whether you have what it takes to make it as a trader. You will note that some of these (many other emotions as well) can be effectively addressed through practice. You can gain confidence in your method/system, you can gain confidence in your ability as a trader, you can gain confidence that you're not just throwing your money away, etc.. And there is a certain level of proficiency that can be developed through simulated trading, and sim trading is a great way to sharpen up your live trading. But when you've been sim trading and finally go live and the dollars roll down and up in realtime before your eyes, you finally have that confidence tested, and so yes it is a very different level you are working on than the simulated level. But I would have to say that at least for me, simulation has been a great boon in my development as a profitable trader. And after a while of profitable trading, the emotion level goes down to the simulated trading level of emotion (where you are concerned about executing, rather than about losing $$$), and even below it as it starts to get less exciting and more profitable and as the proficiency level rises.
As we can only speak for our own experiences, and being that I was not intending to make any absolute statements about simulated results, perhaps I should have stated that -- for me, simulated results have always been an exercise in futility... My words were most definitely not perpetuated by my testosterone level though, but rather years of experience speculating and testing/refining new and old strategies/styles alike... PEACE and good-specul8ting to all (be it with monopoly money or real money)...
Man, you're not kidding. With the arrival of the internet, everything changed. Education, lower commissions, simulators, etc... When I first started out,(about 15 years ago) when we got a signal on the chart, we counted to 30. 1K, 2K, 3K, etc... Then whatever the market was at, that was our fill. Back then, that's about how long it took to grab the phone, push the speed dial button, get an answer, give your order...etc. These guys starting out today, got it made...
Very interesting that PAPER TRADING......is considered a good tool for training. Out of experience...those at Schonfeld who paper traded well, i would say 99% blew out or where never Net profitable once they went live......however, on the paper trades they where great traders. Also, SPIKE II , traders who traded on the simulator....once again ended up doing well. However, once they went live, same results as those at Schonfeld. I find that trading small shares....but actually trading "LIVE" is a way better tool. That is how i was trained and how i trained others. Of course....you have to have capital behind you when you use this method... OK.....now this is based on DAYTRADING.....as a daytrader....not CNBC's bullshit definition of a trader, or ETRADE, DAYTECH or the other "Traders" who are really more like Short term investor. I find many on ET or more like INVESTORS, Making a few trades a week, if not a few a month. So, I have no idea on the % of successful paper Investors and the % that actually do well as LIVE INVESTORS.
I'm loving it. I'm currently daytrading ES on a real-time simulator and it's a great experience. And rewarding so far. I know guys who trade real $ and are profitable, yet they still use simulator to test new stuff or what not. I use TSim+. If I ever decide to go live, I flip one switch and orders will actually be routed to IB Honestly, I'm thinking ... how could I be such an idiot not to have tried it earlier? What was it? Probably laziness to get up early in the morning to "pretend trade".
Hi. I'm a position trader but I have been looking to get into the ES, to daytrade (to trade in addition to position trading). I have been using T Sim+ as well. I like it. The results have been very good. But the problem I see with T Sim+ is that the order fills are not realistic. I use a lot of limits, and sometimes I get filled when I KNOW that I should not get filled (i.e. it seems that your limit gets executed if your limit order price is executed. So even if there's 400 contracts ahead of you, you still get filled when your limit order price hits in the market, which doesn't happen in real life). Do you or anyone know a real time simulator that actually executes orders like in, well, real life? Thanks Jake
Yoy don't need another simulator, just buy at the ask and sell at the bid. You will have to do that too when trading live and want to be sure of a fill. If your simulator doesn't have this option, just subtract 2 ticks per trade/contract. That will give you a realistic idea.