A**hole Specialists

Discussion in 'Order Execution' started by rtharp, Jun 13, 2002.

  1. now can you give reasons why.

    I've been warned about LLY though and he is on my do not trade list for certain systems. He tends to have wide slippage at times and I've had him gap down .50 to print one of my orders of a trailing stop for my small order only to be printed at his regular bid/offer .50 higher 3 seconds later.

    These are reasons why.

    Robert Tharp
    #21     Jun 13, 2002
  2. your analyzing me sets off a red flag for me (but thanks for the heads up. I will police myself to see I'm becoming a 'victim'). I average 1 trade on the NYSE every three minutes of every trading day. That can't help but force me to reach my own conclusions (to do otherwise would be irresponsible) .

    I try to discern between my own mistakes, the inevitable bad trade, the normal give and take of the market, and a genuine set up by the specialist.

    You know, when you say, 'cite specific examples,' you sound JUST like the NYSE themselves.

    I'll reiterate: I have defended the specialist system even though I know there are times when I have been dealt with fraudulently. The rules are written and interpreted with loopholes that specialists take advantage of (to wit, the 1 min 'waiting period').

    Specialist are beholden to the crowd. Electronic order entry is frequently overlooked (as the rules allow) and for proof you'll have to hunt down the article I posted or request it and I'll send it to you.

    My conclusion is that specialists are stretching ever more to make their money, and that the economics of the specialist system is enticing them to do it. In other words, the only way they can be justified economically is by protecting themselves with a monopoly. There is effectively ZERO competition for my orders on listed stocks. The fills are entirely at the discretion of the specialist, within the context of a body of rules that has been written by an organization that he is a member of, that has the privilege of being 'self regulating,' that it takes literally an act of congress to hold accountable its customers.

    It leads me to speculate that under current conditions there is no economic justification for their existence-- hence the construct of the monopoly to protect them.

    I am not pleased by this. I have never been in a rush to eliminate specialists and go entirely electronic, because that has its own set of dangers. I believe that the human element is most desirable in commerce, and that every practitioner of a legitimate function is worth his pay. However, we live in times when true integrity is in short supply. I wish it were not so, and that I was as convinced of the soundness of the motives of the specialist as I am the need to question them.

    In any economic venue in America, fairness is a requirement to be fought for. Markets only have as much integrity as their participants. Unreliable markets simply don't last.

    I know...I never read long posts...I'll be surprised if anyone gets through this one.
    #22     Jun 14, 2002
  3. Mike777


    This turned real academic all of a sudden.

    Sorry if I offended anyone in anyway but I just followed the title of the thread A**hole Specialists.

    For me mer and cls are A**holes. I'm sure they are really nice friendly, family chaps but they have got the better of me several times (by gapping prices etc) so I'm just sounding off.

    Nothing personal against them, but I cuss the sky when it rains too.

    PS Chas your post looked really good but I didn't read the middle part.:D
    #23     Jun 14, 2002
  4. whoever knows what that little thing that hangs from the lizard's chin is called is Da Man.
    #24     Jun 14, 2002
  5. trade at your own risk today. they're breaking records for audacity.
    #25     Jun 14, 2002
  6. Mike777


    I hear yer.
    #26     Jun 14, 2002
  7. Yeah, they really are. I gotta stop using stop losses on listed stocks. Nothing like seeing an execution pop up on my screen only to find out it was a block at the low of the day.

    Do you hear that, new guys? DON'T use stop losses on listed stocks. Use alerts instead and use your judgment.
    #27     Jun 14, 2002
  8. some apologist for the nyse is going to post something like, "a good trader trades at his own risk every day." yadda yadda yadda. Some days are more risky than others.
    #28     Jun 14, 2002
  9. I enter a lot of orders through stops.....

    Thanks FBN........thanks FMC and thanks XL today for the nice fills.

    #29     Jun 14, 2002
  10. right on schedule.
    #30     Jun 14, 2002