A guide to trading laptops on a budget

DarthSidious · Nov 7, 2015

tbillm said:
sir where did you find your basic HP with a collection of some of these features??
More...

Here is some new or manufacturer refurbished 17+ inch laptops on eBay. Filter it further as you wish. That's where I got mine.

The i3 backup machine was from Staples

Feel free to pay for the upgrades as you need or do it yourself after you get the laptop.

Examples:
Cheapest starter for $325.45 shipped
Cheapest one that has 16GB for $625.45 shipped
etc. etc.

smile · Nov 8, 2015

DarthSidious said:
I meant to write something up for a while, but finally managed to put something together. I hope it helps as this should answer a lot of questions that is posted here quite frequently. I bought my present setup about 4 months ago, and did a lot of research into what I want and what I really need. This is a summary of that.

I no longer use desktops. A desktop is an absolute necessity if you need say more than 6 displays. I do not, and suspect a vast majority of us do not.

My current setup:

HP Envy 17t-j100 laptop

Intel Core i7-4700MQ CPU @ 2.40GHz

16GB RAM

Display 17.3 inch (1920x1080 matte IPS display)

250GB SSD + 1TB HDD (yep, both together; no, not mSATA)

Blu-Ray Writer

Backlit keyboard

1GB ethernet, wi-fi

4 USB 3.0 ports, 1 HDMI output, 1 Display link port

Windows 8.1 Pro 64 bit

My backup machine setup:

HP 17-e117dx laptop

Intel Core i3-3130M CPU @ 2.60GHz

16GB RAM

Display 17.3 inch (1600x900 glossy display)

250GB SSD

DVD Writer

100MB ethernet, wi-fi

2 USB 3.0 ports, 1 USB 2.0 port, 1 HDMI output, 1 VGA output

Windows 8.1 64 bit

Both laptops can be used with:

HIS HDOCK1 Multi-View x2 USB Docking Station ($89.99 in newegg right now 2015/11/03). Additional benefit: Provides 1GB wired network access over your USB 3.0 port. So if your laptop has a 100MB network port, this increases your network bandwidth 10x. Not necessary for the trading part (your internet connection is definitely slower than 100MB ethernet), but faster is always better for access to other computers in your network

2x Dell P2314H monitors (so I have 3 displays: 2 Dell monitors + laptop display)

Unless something breaks, I expect to use it for a long time. Let's go over the issues:

Why a laptop
It comes with a built in UPS + mobility if I want / need it. Rest of my infrastructure, including one file server, router, modem and what not is on a UPS. I also do not want to have a "primary" desktop + a laptop as that means need to sync 2 machines. Also the headaches to manage 2 separate machines. I do not really use the backup machine, but make sure it is in a condition to so I can continue my trading on it if my primary machine quits in the most inopportune moment.

CPU
Any CPU from a core i3 and up will do. Really. Well, it does for me. I do not have a ton of indicators running, but IB TWS, Sierra Chart & MultiCharts .net version eats only about 10-20% of CPU at most in the busiest of times. The docking station uses the CPU to drive the Dell monitors (because it emulates a graphics card using the CPU), and that takes 5-7% at most. Chrome and other misc. crap takes 10%. This is on my i7. In total (the %s mentioned above does not just add up) I barely go above 20%. There will be a spike when you are opening your chart etc., but i3 is just fine for continuing your daily work. Backtesting etc. will take more time. If you do a lot of those kind of stuff, then maybe you need something faster. I am not trying to dissuade you from buying a more powerful processor, but I think i3 is just fine. You will probably end up a more powerful processor though (read on).

Memory
Buy something that has 16GB. 12GB will do. 8GB is too less. Everything you are running will probably fit in 8GB just fine, but the extra memory is used by Windows for caching, and provides a lot of speed improvement. Feel free to buy a 4GB laptop on sale, and get rid of the RAM stick and put 2 8GB sticks. This you need. If a laptop is not upgradable to 16GB, do not buy it. Curiously, the documentation doesn't always tell the maximum RAM a laptop can use. Case in point: My backup laptop, a HP 17-e117dx with a i3 processor. According to HP, Max memory supported is 8GB. That is a lie. I have put 2 8GB sticks in it, and it happily uses 16GB. Google around to make sure before you buy. For example, that laptop is available in amazon, and in the review a lot of people report successfully using 16GB.

Laptop display
17.3 is the biggest commonly available display, and for me it a must. More screen, more stuff I can look at easy. Simple. But this is where the price differential comes in. In a cut price $400 laptop, the most you can get is 1600x900 with a glossy non-IPS display. The minute you want 1920x1080 with a matte IPS display in a laptop, it becomes "premium". And when you buy "premium", you start getting mostly i5 & i7 CPUs. If 2 display is all you need, you can simply use the cheapo laptop as a desktop, keep the lid closed, and never look at the laptop screen. You just add it to the Docking Station, add a keyboard & mouse and use that. 1600x900 with a glossy non-IPS display is not necessarily a deal breaker, as long as you are okay with it. 1600x900 is pretty decent. Glossy non-IPS display would mean the viewing angles would be a bit worse, and you need to make sure you do not have a light source that is reflecting off of the laptop screen. That is all. But if you can afford it, do go for a 1920x1080 with a matte IPS display.

Regular monitors
Buy displays that can be rotated 180 degrees and used in a portrait mode. More money, but worth it. Also buy IPS panels (better viewing angles) and buy matte (non-glossy)
I make sure my laptop screen has the same resolution as the standalone monitors. That way when I move my workspace between them, I do not need to resize windows.

Storage
The built in HDD absolutely must go, and be replaced by a SSD. This should not be negotiable. This one upgrade would do more for you than any CPU or RAM upgrade would. I use Samsung 850 EVO series SSD for the following reasons:

5 year warranty. Most other SSD comes with 3 year

Encryption: Can use with BitLocker (only in Pro version of windows) or use TCG Opal encryption that is built into the SSD with any version of windows (Pro not necessary)

How much storage? Everyone is different. All my data basically live on my file server (a separate linux machine), that gets backed up every 24 hours both locally and "in the cloud". 250GB is actually overkill for me. So 250GB SSD is what I buy. 120GB would be tight, and the price difference is minimal. I do like the option of additional 1TB of HDD locally that can have data not frequently used. This is why I wanted a laptop able to accommodate 2 drives. It is likely that you do not need that; in that case ignore all these talk about dual drive laptops. Also, go for a bigger SSD by all means if you need that and are okay paying for it.

But what about SSD + HDD like I have? I have only been able to identify one kind of laptop that can have 2 2.5" drives. HP Envy series, with model -j** (the model mumbers have -j followed by some numbers; models with CTO in the model number do NOT have spot for 2 drives). They have a spot for a second HDD. I simply cloned the HDD to the SSD, replaced the HDD with the SSD to make it primary drive, and put the HDD in the second slot. Some of the newer laptops can take a mSATA SSD, which is really a small card. But I believe it is hard to make that your primary drive, which will negate the benefits of having a SSD as your primary drive with all the speed benefits that it offers. Of course you can replace the primary HDD with an SSD as well, but you lose out on cheap secondary storage that an HDD offers.

What if you have / buy a laptop that does not offer a spot for a second HDD? Well, there are things like this which will allow you to take out your optical drive, and put this caddy in with a HDD. You might be lucky and find some vendor selling something that has a matching bezel for the caddy so no one will be able to tell that you have replaced the optical drive with something aftermarket. If not, you can still use one of the generic ones offered. They will work fine, and you will be the proud owner of a ghetto looking laptop. I will not do that, but you sure can. It will work fine. Do some research and find out what thickness you need (12.7 mm, 9.5mm etc.)

Extra monitors
I use a docking station. All it takes is a USB 3.0 cable from my laptop the docking station, and I instantly have 2 extra monitors, wired networking, keyboard, mouse and everything that you expect out of a desktop. But you can instead use USB display adapters to keep adding monitors. The Sabrent models can support upto 6 monitors I believe. Also, you can always add one single monitor directly to the laptop to have 2 displays (laptop + the monitor you added) without any docking station or USB display adapters.

Encryption
Both my machines are encrypted. For my primary machine, I use BitLocker. The backup machine does not have Windows Pro version, and BitLocker is not available. So I use DiskCryptor. Works fine. The i7 CPU has Intel AES encryption built in, so uses no extra CPU at all for on the fly encryption / decryption. If you are using a HDD with a i3 CPU (which does not have AES support in the hardware), there will be extra CPU usage. But since it will be taken out of the idle time i3 CPU has, you will see no difference. If you are using a SSD like Samsung EVO with built in TCG Opal encryption, the SSD does all the encryption / decryption, and no extra CPU cycle will be used.

Where to buy and what brand
Everyone has their favorite. So do I. I have had very good experience with HP laptops. So I continue to buy them. Also, as I have pointed out earlier, only HP Envy series, with model -j** has space for 2 2.5 inch HDD / SSD which is something I like a lot. But buy whatever brand you like or find at a good deal.

Staples, BestBuy, Costco, Frys, NewEgg they are all good. If you want to buy new and find some good deal, go for it by all means. Also feel free to buy manufacturer refurbished in eBay. But please do not buy used or "seller refurbished" or "authorized refurbisher refurbished". Those just means used. Manufacturer refurbished comes with 3 months warranties in factory sealed box (HP does at least), and that is more than enough for the saving they offer. I have bought many HP refurbished over the years, and out of the box they look identical to brand new ones. I can not tell the difference. I did have some issue with the keyboard in my last pruchase, and HP promptly replaced the keyboard no questions asked with free shipping both ways.

Let me know if you have any questions or nitty-gritty details of HDD cloning or configuration etc., and I will answer as best as I can.

Misc. notes:

Reboot your machine in the weekend. Power cycle the docking station too

Stay with Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. Windows 10 will spy on you harder, and not offer much extra, if anything in return. Plus, everything in the market is tried and tested with 7 & 8.1. Why mess with it?

Block the following MS updates. If already installed, uninstall them. They spy on you, and doesn't provide anything:

KB3068708 Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry

KB3022345 (replaced by KB3068708)

KB3075249 Update that adds telemetry points to consent.exe in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7

KB3080149 Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry

KB3035583 get win10 nag message

More...

Many thanks for taking the time to write this up.

It is very helpful!

DarthSidious · Nov 11, 2015

50% off Dell refurb laptops & monitors with code SLICKDEALS50 & ships free. Link: dellrefurbished.com

I do not have any idea about condition. Never bought Dell, so I don't know how good or bad they are.

Cdntrader · Nov 12, 2015

DarthSidious said:
I meant to write something up for a while, but finally managed to put something together. I hope it helps as this should answer a lot of questions that is posted here quite frequently. I bought my present setup about 4 months ago, and did a lot of research into what I want and what I really need. This is a summary of that.

I no longer use desktops. A desktop is an absolute necessity if you need say more than 6 displays. I do not, and suspect a vast majority of us do not.

My current setup:

HP Envy 17t-j100 laptop

Intel Core i7-4700MQ CPU @ 2.40GHz

16GB RAM

Display 17.3 inch (1920x1080 matte IPS display)

250GB SSD + 1TB HDD (yep, both together; no, not mSATA)

Blu-Ray Writer

Backlit keyboard

1GB ethernet, wi-fi

4 USB 3.0 ports, 1 HDMI output, 1 Display link port

Windows 8.1 Pro 64 bit

My backup machine setup:

HP 17-e117dx laptop

Intel Core i3-3130M CPU @ 2.60GHz

16GB RAM

Display 17.3 inch (1600x900 glossy display)

250GB SSD

DVD Writer

100MB ethernet, wi-fi

2 USB 3.0 ports, 1 USB 2.0 port, 1 HDMI output, 1 VGA output

Windows 8.1 64 bit

Both laptops can be used with:

HIS HDOCK1 Multi-View x2 USB Docking Station ($89.99 in newegg right now 2015/11/03). Additional benefit: Provides 1GB wired network access over your USB 3.0 port. So if your laptop has a 100MB network port, this increases your network bandwidth 10x. Not necessary for the trading part (your internet connection is definitely slower than 100MB ethernet), but faster is always better for access to other computers in your network

2x Dell P2314H monitors (so I have 3 displays: 2 Dell monitors + laptop display)

Unless something breaks, I expect to use it for a long time. Let's go over the issues:

Why a laptop
It comes with a built in UPS + mobility if I want / need it. Rest of my infrastructure, including one file server, router, modem and what not is on a UPS. I also do not want to have a "primary" desktop + a laptop as that means need to sync 2 machines. Also the headaches to manage 2 separate machines. I do not really use the backup machine, but make sure it is in a condition to so I can continue my trading on it if my primary machine quits in the most inopportune moment.

CPU
Any CPU from a core i3 and up will do. Really. Well, it does for me. I do not have a ton of indicators running, but IB TWS, Sierra Chart & MultiCharts .net version eats only about 10-20% of CPU at most in the busiest of times. The docking station uses the CPU to drive the Dell monitors (because it emulates a graphics card using the CPU), and that takes 5-7% at most. Chrome and other misc. crap takes 10%. This is on my i7. In total (the %s mentioned above does not just add up) I barely go above 20%. There will be a spike when you are opening your chart etc., but i3 is just fine for continuing your daily work. Backtesting etc. will take more time. If you do a lot of those kind of stuff, then maybe you need something faster. I am not trying to dissuade you from buying a more powerful processor, but I think i3 is just fine. You will probably end up a more powerful processor though (read on).

Memory
Buy something that has 16GB. 12GB will do. 8GB is too less. Everything you are running will probably fit in 8GB just fine, but the extra memory is used by Windows for caching, and provides a lot of speed improvement. Feel free to buy a 4GB laptop on sale, and get rid of the RAM stick and put 2 8GB sticks. This you need. If a laptop is not upgradable to 16GB, do not buy it. Curiously, the documentation doesn't always tell the maximum RAM a laptop can use. Case in point: My backup laptop, a HP 17-e117dx with a i3 processor. According to HP, Max memory supported is 8GB. That is a lie. I have put 2 8GB sticks in it, and it happily uses 16GB. Google around to make sure before you buy. For example, that laptop is available in amazon, and in the review a lot of people report successfully using 16GB.

Laptop display
17.3 is the biggest commonly available display, and for me it a must. More screen, more stuff I can look at easy. Simple. But this is where the price differential comes in. In a cut price $400 laptop, the most you can get is 1600x900 with a glossy non-IPS display. The minute you want 1920x1080 with a matte IPS display in a laptop, it becomes "premium". And when you buy "premium", you start getting mostly i5 & i7 CPUs. If 2 display is all you need, you can simply use the cheapo laptop as a desktop, keep the lid closed, and never look at the laptop screen. You just add it to the Docking Station, add a keyboard & mouse and use that. 1600x900 with a glossy non-IPS display is not necessarily a deal breaker, as long as you are okay with it. 1600x900 is pretty decent. Glossy non-IPS display would mean the viewing angles would be a bit worse, and you need to make sure you do not have a light source that is reflecting off of the laptop screen. That is all. But if you can afford it, do go for a 1920x1080 with a matte IPS display.

Regular monitors
Buy displays that can be rotated 180 degrees and used in a portrait mode. More money, but worth it. Also buy IPS panels (better viewing angles) and buy matte (non-glossy)
I make sure my laptop screen has the same resolution as the standalone monitors. That way when I move my workspace between them, I do not need to resize windows.

Storage
The built in HDD absolutely must go, and be replaced by a SSD. This should not be negotiable. This one upgrade would do more for you than any CPU or RAM upgrade would. I use Samsung 850 EVO series SSD for the following reasons:

5 year warranty. Most other SSD comes with 3 year

Encryption: Can use with BitLocker (only in Pro version of windows) or use TCG Opal encryption that is built into the SSD with any version of windows (Pro not necessary)

How much storage? Everyone is different. All my data basically live on my file server (a separate linux machine), that gets backed up every 24 hours both locally and "in the cloud". 250GB is actually overkill for me. So 250GB SSD is what I buy. 120GB would be tight, and the price difference is minimal. I do like the option of additional 1TB of HDD locally that can have data not frequently used. This is why I wanted a laptop able to accommodate 2 drives. It is likely that you do not need that; in that case ignore all these talk about dual drive laptops. Also, go for a bigger SSD by all means if you need that and are okay paying for it.

But what about SSD + HDD like I have? I have only been able to identify one kind of laptop that can have 2 2.5" drives. HP Envy series, with model -j** (the model mumbers have -j followed by some numbers; models with CTO in the model number do NOT have spot for 2 drives). They have a spot for a second HDD. I simply cloned the HDD to the SSD, replaced the HDD with the SSD to make it primary drive, and put the HDD in the second slot. Some of the newer laptops can take a mSATA SSD, which is really a small card. But I believe it is hard to make that your primary drive, which will negate the benefits of having a SSD as your primary drive with all the speed benefits that it offers. Of course you can replace the primary HDD with an SSD as well, but you lose out on cheap secondary storage that an HDD offers.

What if you have / buy a laptop that does not offer a spot for a second HDD? Well, there are things like this which will allow you to take out your optical drive, and put this caddy in with a HDD. You might be lucky and find some vendor selling something that has a matching bezel for the caddy so no one will be able to tell that you have replaced the optical drive with something aftermarket. If not, you can still use one of the generic ones offered. They will work fine, and you will be the proud owner of a ghetto looking laptop. I will not do that, but you sure can. It will work fine. Do some research and find out what thickness you need (12.7 mm, 9.5mm etc.)

Extra monitors
I use a docking station. All it takes is a USB 3.0 cable from my laptop the docking station, and I instantly have 2 extra monitors, wired networking, keyboard, mouse and everything that you expect out of a desktop. But you can instead use USB display adapters to keep adding monitors. The Sabrent models can support upto 6 monitors I believe. Also, you can always add one single monitor directly to the laptop to have 2 displays (laptop + the monitor you added) without any docking station or USB display adapters.

Encryption
Both my machines are encrypted. For my primary machine, I use BitLocker. The backup machine does not have Windows Pro version, and BitLocker is not available. So I use DiskCryptor. Works fine. The i7 CPU has Intel AES encryption built in, so uses no extra CPU at all for on the fly encryption / decryption. If you are using a HDD with a i3 CPU (which does not have AES support in the hardware), there will be extra CPU usage. But since it will be taken out of the idle time i3 CPU has, you will see no difference. If you are using a SSD like Samsung EVO with built in TCG Opal encryption, the SSD does all the encryption / decryption, and no extra CPU cycle will be used.

Where to buy and what brand
Everyone has their favorite. So do I. I have had very good experience with HP laptops. So I continue to buy them. Also, as I have pointed out earlier, only HP Envy series, with model -j** has space for 2 2.5 inch HDD / SSD which is something I like a lot. But buy whatever brand you like or find at a good deal.

Staples, BestBuy, Costco, Frys, NewEgg they are all good. If you want to buy new and find some good deal, go for it by all means. Also feel free to buy manufacturer refurbished in eBay. But please do not buy used or "seller refurbished" or "authorized refurbisher refurbished". Those just means used. Manufacturer refurbished comes with 3 months warranties in factory sealed box (HP does at least), and that is more than enough for the saving they offer. I have bought many HP refurbished over the years, and out of the box they look identical to brand new ones. I can not tell the difference. I did have some issue with the keyboard in my last pruchase, and HP promptly replaced the keyboard no questions asked with free shipping both ways.

Let me know if you have any questions or nitty-gritty details of HDD cloning or configuration etc., and I will answer as best as I can.

Misc. notes:

Reboot your machine in the weekend. Power cycle the docking station too

Stay with Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. Windows 10 will spy on you harder, and not offer much extra, if anything in return. Plus, everything in the market is tried and tested with 7 & 8.1. Why mess with it?

Block the following MS updates. If already installed, uninstall them. They spy on you, and doesn't provide anything:

KB3068708 Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry

KB3022345 (replaced by KB3068708)

KB3075249 Update that adds telemetry points to consent.exe in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7

KB3080149 Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry

KB3035583 get win10 nag message

More...

What kind of trading do you do with it?

DarthSidious · Nov 12, 2015

Cdntrader said:
What kind of trading do you do with it?
More...

US Futures on globex platform. Discretionary. Intraday, but not scalping. Not latency-sensitive.

marketsurfer · Nov 12, 2015

Wow, good stuff, Darth. Thank you!!

DarthSidious · Nov 20, 2015

For you Dell heads. this (currently $749) will be $399 from 11/26. Linky. Do not forget 5% FatWallet cash back. 15.6 inch screen, not my preferred 17+ inch. But some of you prefer the 15.6 screen anyways. Just slap in a SSD, and you are all set. RAM increase nice to do, but probably not needed for most use cases.

Also, Black Friday laptop deals & desktop deals

marcoPolo21 · Nov 20, 2015

DarthSidious said:
For you Dell heads. this (currently $749) will be $399 from 11/26. Linky. Do not forget 5% FatWallet cash back. 15.6 inch screen, not my preferred 17+ inch. But some of you prefer the 15.6 screen anyways. Just slap in a SSD, and you are all set. RAM increase nice to do, but probably not needed for most use cases.

Also, Black Friday laptop deals & desktop deals
More...

so what - you replace the existing hard drive...with a SSD ?

thanks,
marc

DarthSidious · Nov 20, 2015

marcoPolo21 said:
so what - you replace the existing hard drive...with a SSD ?

thanks,
marc

More...

Not sure I understand your question. Should we replace the HDD with an SSD? Yes.

marcoPolo21 · Nov 20, 2015

DarthSidious said:
Not sure I understand your question. Should we replace the HDD with an SSD? Yes.
More...

CAN you replace them, was my question;

they're physically the same size, seems to be what you're saying,
and you just swap them...?

thanks,
marc