a Correlation Question

Discussion in 'Technical Analysis' started by gummy, Nov 2, 2005.

  1. #11     Nov 2, 2005
  2. The correlation is negative because a<0; it is perfect because ("almost surely" :) ) you chose the conditional variance of y to be zero. Your choice of b and mean(x) ensures a probable positive return for both stocks over the full time period.

    Edit: Nice website!
     
    #12     Nov 2, 2005
  3. gummy

    gummy

    Actually, I invented ten random x- returns (a la NORMINV(), in Excel).
    Then I generated the y-returns via:
    y = ax + b (with your choice of "a" and "b").
    The spreadsheet is available, to play with :D

    Many think (me included, until recently!) that (for example) Investopedia's explanation is okay, namely:

    "Perfect positive correlation (a correlation co-efficient of +1) implies that as one security moves, either up or down, the other security will move in lockstep, in the same direction.".
     
    #13     Nov 2, 2005

  4. Meant conditional on x: if you use y=ax+b+e, where e is independent of x (and zero mean), the correlation would be greater than -1. Your choice of stock "Y" is more like "short some of X" plus/minus "cash."
     
    #14     Nov 2, 2005
  5. gummy

    gummy

    There are a jillion ways to generate y-returns, given the x-returns.

    My purpose was to illustrate that it's possible for securities to go up and down together ... yet a correlation of -1.

    Indeed, it's possible to go in opposite directions yet have a correlation = +1.

    I've done that.

    It's irrelevant how the y-returns were generated. They're inventions, to illustrate the possibility.

    I guess the moral is:
    <B>Don't place too much trust in the Pearson Correlation Coefficient!</B>

    I suggest that Spearman correlation is sexier. :D
     
    #15     Nov 2, 2005
  6. Agreed, wasn't trying to undo your basic point, which is very well taken. :cool:
     
    #16     Nov 2, 2005
  7. nitro

    nitro

    That is why I mentioned CoIntegration which is a better estimate of co-movement of securities than correlation.

    The problem is that you need lots of data.

    nitro
     
    #17     Nov 2, 2005
  8. Gummy,

    Thanks. I find your posts refreshing. Please continue with these statistical puzzles.

    IMO, looking for any type of correlations between 2 stocks or two instruments is meaningless- be it spearman or pearson.
    The individual companies/indices have possibly different products/components and different weights to components, different business models within which they operate, different expectations of future cash flows, different market externalities that impact their valuations.
    Just because a correlation number is calculated and is increasing or diverging from the past, I would not venture to assign any meaning to it, let alone trade on the info.
     
    #18     Nov 2, 2005
  9. gummy

    gummy

    I tend to agree. :)

    However, if the returns of stock Y are uniquely determined by the returns of stock X as, for example, when
    (y-returns) = (x-returns)^3
    it's difficult to understand a statement that says they have a low correlation.

    It's even more confusing (to me, at least) to see two stocks whose prices move up together
    ... and then find that their correlation is -100%.

    Mamma mia!
    (That's why I'd prefer Spearman to Pearson :D )
     
    #19     Nov 3, 2005
  10. Thank you for sharing your time. I can sort of explain the anomaly (pardon my broadcasting my naivete). When you have an equation relating the returns of X and Y, you are making some sort of linear regression fit between the respective returns. Theoretically, they can have a perfect negative correlation. When X increases, Y can decrease, and vice versa. As long as the returns bounce up and down around the regression line, they would have satisfied both conditions- i.e have a negative correlation and a positive regression fit of their respective returns. In any case, your website is wonderful. am eternally grateful to that.

    Best wishes.


     
    #20     Nov 5, 2005