How do you think resistent strains of bacteria come into being? God snapped his fingers and decided to create a new one which our antibiotics dont work against?? peace axeman _______________________________________________ If you define evolution this loosely then you can decide to stand on and defend that position. I can give you literally thousands of other changes brought about by (intelligent) selective breeding or random selection influenced by environment but changes within those species or organisms do not confirm the strict interpretation of evolution. Adaptation within a species or organism does not prove that a new species or organism has appeared. This does not even address lethals and terminals.
I respectfully disagree. If you assembled a group of people that were not biased with preconceived ideas about Genesis (and most people in our culture thanks to the young earth interpretation are) and if they looked at it with the viewpoint of the observer on the earth, I think they would. But we'll just have to "agree to disagree". And, yes, I'm biased, but then so are you. You say there is no evidence for the supernatural. What humanist or psychological organist has ever investigated it? None of course. They don't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole. You've got a few articles in Skeptic magazine and that's it. Go live in Tibet or a rural village in China and tell me there's no supernatural. Let me give another example. I do not for a minute believe that any true UFO has visited our fair planet. But I do believe that a small percentage of the UFO cases are unexplainable and have a (dark) spiritual side to them. You cannot just explain this away as "brain stimulation" or "dementia". But will the APA or some other standard scholarly group review this? No! So you're contention that there is no spiritual side to life is self-reinforcing because noone will look into it except for those willing to investigate in their private lives. Meanwhile, you guys cleaim that 5 billion epople are one step away from Shirley MacClaine in the their mentalitiy and that there is no evidence...
I think if you saw the Dalai Lama levitate you'd say it was done with wires or that you were suffering from an old brain injury...
"Funny, there is no scientific proof only theories written in a science book about the earths formation but you accept it???" Technically, I accept nothing because I am way out of date on earth science. But if scientists claim it is a theory, and I agree, then I would accept is a THEORY and NOT has a fact. You, on the other hand, have a hypothesis, "god", and accept it as fact. Do you deny this? "Your confusing mythology with religion,,,,in mythology they used various characters to explain our flaws, like narcissus, aphrodite ect.....the mythology was based on our internal battles and based it on god like characters who were playing games with our life." I am not confusing anything, you are. Greek mythology WAS A RELIGION. It only became "mythology" after the christians took over. The fact that characters/gods were used to describe our flaws/emotions, etc, in no way defines this as mythology. TM:"Then there is the science aspect that demands FACTS but cannot provide them... TM:3rd graders know as much about the formation of the earth as anyone else" AXE:False. You cannot prove this. "OK....Please ask a scientist to explain the Jump from Plant to Animal cell in the formation of life and the begriming of evolution??? " Ummm excuse me... but this was NOT your claim at all. Your claim was: "3rd graders know as much about the formation of the earth as anyone else" If I grabbed a PHD in earth science, and put him up on a pedestal against a 3rd grader, and asked both of them to spout out as much information as they knew about earths formation, are you REALLY claiming the 3rd grader will keep up? Obviously false. <Snip evolution stuff > The article you just posted said: "Indeed, nothing in science is ever "proven" beyond all possible doubt; there is no way of knowing, with 100% certainty, that one's proof is foolproof." So he is admitting, I am TAKING A LEAP OF FAITH....he's more religious then he realized....he has no proof just theory... Now your really stretching. Do you consider the existence of gravity a LEAP OF faith? Is it a LEAP OF FAITH that your computer transmitted trillions of electrical pulses through a CPU to do the work it required to send this message? If science said we are not 100% certain that all the complex devices in your computer ACTUALLY WORK, would you claim they are making a LEAP OF FAITH??? No..... you misunderstand. Science is simply stating that it is OPEN to being proven WRONG. It is NOT 100% closeminded, and always OPEN to all previous knowledge being modified. A LEAP OF FAITH, is what you do when you have an extraordinary claim such as god with ZIPPO supporting evidence. "What you just said is nothing more then a belief based on faith...you have no data....any data you have is 5 billion years old..." So here you imply that all data that is old is FLAWED? I guess since they light from stars 1 billion light years away is 1 billion years old, I am incapable of looking through a telescope and seeing that it exists??? Very flawed reasoning here. "AXE, IM surprised AT YOU !....after the LS experiment on Ornish you know that there has to be some controls...." Snip. I have read up on it. And I ask you this, does the scientific community accept this shroud as the REAL DEAL? No they don't. You don't have to explain exactly how a hoax was created to debunk it. You only need find a new things seriously wrong with it. Like the carbon dating tests, etc. They even have a forgers confession. There are many problems with the shroud. It has been readily dismissed. Good summary: http://www.csicop.org/list/listarchive/msg00042.html "Science makes no such claim. When I roll a ball on a flat surface does it stay in motion forever? Of course not. You conveniently left out the fact that other forces can stop this motion. "what forces are they???? when you roll a ball on a flat surface on the earth GRAVITY will slow it down then stop it...." No it will not. It's called friction. Friction, not gravity will stop it. "....so either the earth IS slowing and the theory of relativity is false...." TM, your simply showing your ignorance of physics here. I am also fairly ignorant in this subject, but the reasons behind the earth slowing down are easily found on the web. Check out: http://bowie.gsfc.nasa.gov/ggfc/tides/intro.html http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/2003/0210rotation.html "My point was science about creation is nothing more then a religious leap of faith with little or no fact. " You are attempting to make your case by muddying the waters of science, and throwing ALL of sciences claims into ONE big bucket, and then pointing out the fact that SOME of the claims have little or no evidence. Let's be fair and accurate here. Science has 3 kinds of claims. 1) Hypothesis - zero evidence, or very little. 2) Theory - hypothesis + good evidence 3) Fact - Tons of evidence, highest probability of being true. Yes, scientists make some claims with little or no evidence. But they DONT call it fact. They call it a hypothesis. If you ask some REAL scientists, the best of the best, if evolution is a hypothesis, a theory, or a FACT, I wager you will get multiple replies. This is because your question is completely ambiguous. Some types of evolution are considered FACT as much as gravity is. Other types are still considered theory. It is YOUR error to throw them all in one basket and then claim that scientists are taking a leap of faith and calling it all FACT, when that is NOT the case. Basically just a strawman. peace axeman
Genesis has been exposed as NOT any of the things you stridently insisted it was. It does not match any comprehendable record of any kind. You simply saying it does will not make it so. Go back and read what you posted on the subject! It is just bordering on the dishonest to wash your hands of all that by waving it away with "..I may have been off by a verse". You see, this for me sums up the whole lack of integrity and honesty, enthusiastically encouraged by such nonsense bandied and thrown around by so called "theists". The plain and simple fact is Genesis does not stand up to any straight forward honest understandings whatsoever, it has been shown not to . You must blindly accept all its obvious ridiculousness without any questions in any shape or form, for what purpose? There are far better fairy stories around if you are prepared to give up your rationality in that way. When Genesis sounds like this.... Genesis 2: And the religions of the earth are without form, and void; and darkness is upon the face of them all. And the Spirit of Reason moved upon the coherence of the apologists and cleansed them all of their nonsense. ....it will start to make some sense at least in verse 2.
ohhh please. if someone, anyone in the world, can levitate right here next to me with no tricks that i can find, i will eat my shoe.
Shoeshine CLAIMED that it matched, that 's why I am stating this. Shoeshine CHOSE this benchmark himself! Therefore, I will of course compare the two and show that they do NOT in fact match. Stu has done a very good job at showing this. "..on the other hand you accept flawed and shaky scientific theory as a benchmark for comparison.." You really need to stop making such a blatantly false claims over and over again. WHAT flawed and shaky scientific theory have I accepted? Can you PROVE that I have accepted it? Can you PROVE it is flawed and shaky? Stop putting words in my mouth. Strawman fallacies are easy to spot. peace axeman
LOL...exactly. Can you think of ANYTHING more easily proved or disproved than self levitation? Yet we have ZERO evidence of it. Just claims. How about a video tape? It would be SOOOO easy.... I mean COME ON! And no.... hopping around the floor with legs crossed in NOT levitating. No semantic games here. I want to see someone hover above the ground longer than Michael Jordan can stay in the air after a big jump peace axeman
I did earleir on your acceptence of the Shroud of Turin being a fraud,,,,Look at the experiment he preformed and the fact he cannot reduplicte 1355 techonlogy...but you seemed to accept his scientific findings or else you wouldn't have posted it. BTW David Blain has been video taped levitating...adn has done it in front of thousands....
Here...read this...science has once again proved its as bias as any religion.....the scientist in this even disagree wiht the carbo dating as i stated earlier.....Im not saying one way or another....Im saying NOBODY knows for sure... http://www.shroudstory.com/ In additon, Axe you are always saying....PROVE IT...well I just gave you an example of sombody who levitates and has been video taped and does it in public.....Do you believe that David Blain can levitate??