5 Tricks that Vendors Use

Discussion in 'Educational Resources' started by Lucias, Aug 5, 2011.

  1. Lucias


    Here are some tricks that vendors may use to try to manipulate, mislead, or coerce:

    1. Share information that seems important while leaving out information that is really critical information.


    Rob Hoffman's 99% Winning Record
    Critical information left out: His annual return and risk-adjusted metrics

    I made $x today/this year/etc
    Critical information left out: Account size, risk taken, probability,

    Show great closed equity curve returns:
    Critical information left out: Open trade drawdown.

    Profitable for X years in a row
    Critical information left out: net return, risk adjusted return, what happens when you lose, what it by chance -- often with mutual funds it is result of picking a market that is bull market

    Make a good sounding market call
    Critical information left out: It must be falsifiable. Virtually no commentators will make falsifiable predictions.

    2. Allow you to dream up their results. Ie, Make claims they can't show/tell how much they make but also at same time hint around at making a fortune.

    Hubert Senters is excellent at this trick. The trick is to get you to IMAGINE and DREAM whatever feels right to you. You see variations of this trick on infomercials where you have different people claiming to make varying amounts of money. Why would they talk about someone who only made 1k with a method when others were making 5k? The reason they want to throw a bunch of numbers out is they know that you've a number/something you believe you can do. So, that's the purpose of it.

    The trick is to get you to DREAM up something that you like. You'll associate your DREAM figures to this merchant while the vendor actually makes NO CLAIMS.

    3. Apply high pressure sales tactics/defense tactics.

    TradingAdvantage.com became very defensive and aggressive when I ask for real money results. They talked about how SEC/NFA would shut them down etc. The objective with this is to both silence rational thought while also creating a sense of urgency/pressure and take command of the situation. Another variation is to provide a reason for anything, it will make it believable.

    4. Act like they know someone famous/be someone in know/ get on tv.

    The purpose is to give impression they are insiders. I.e if I Know this famous trader or person then surely I know what I'm talking about and you should pay me. A lot of ponzi schemers got on TV and used that for credibility. The stations don't check anyone. So be careful.

    5. Create an illusion of scarcity

    Many tricks to this.. special time offer, rebate. One vendor who I wasn't even signing up with said "I won't take you on." and made it really obvious he wasn't going to consider me as a student. Why would you do this? Again.. you want to create an illusion of scarcity.. an insiders club.

    John carter/senters use this tactic with special sales/etc. Others will have limited copy or special promotions. Of course, these are general sales tools use by legit business but best be aware of them.

    +1 more
    Make a deal/give away something for free

  2. Are you implying that John Carter's trading system doesn't make money.

    It looked like it did and he sounds like a real trader and not a salesman.
  3. I remember some dumb infomercial where the guy selling his stupid system said "i've made over a million dollars trading stocks"

    what is missing from that statement?? :p
  4. bone

    bone ET Sponsor

    Lucias, in the interest of full disclosure, are you telling any of these vendors that you are also a vendor and that you are so desperate for ideas and are too broke to pay for them that you are trying to bribe their clients ? (your post in the Education Forum soliciting for bribery is below)

    The fact of the matter is that you are marketing a system on C2 that returned less than 5 % for 2010. You are asking people to pay you a fee for market calls for a system you developed primarily for futures on simulated data when in fact you are not a futures trader and have never traded a futures contract.

  5. Lucias


    Bone.. I'm not reading any more of your ridiculous tripe. If anyone is stupid enough to believe your ridiculous posts then I don't care what they think about me. It is not surprising you'd disrespect me since you already disrespected others who have far more accomplishments then you probably ever will.

    I seriously think that in years to come your posts here will serve as a poor reflection of your demeanor, personality, and maturity. Your rudeness, nastiness, and abrasiveness has already cost you business.

    I was actually interested in your spread trading ideas, even though when I went to talk to props in Chicago: most actually claimed that spreading was not a big part of their business, contrary to what you claimed. Who knows, the point is that I've had several people here ask me what I thought about you. Now, if you had been decent then I would've probably said he sounds like he's an expert on energy spreads. But, based on your behavior toward others and myself then I had to be honest that your rudeness and personality traits concerned me. Many of them agreed with me.

    So, you know you've probably lost business because of your behavior and maybe it is a good thing because it does ring alarm bells. Anyway, I don't have any animosity or anger in me. You do seem to think everyone is trying to make a living by mentoring or teaching and they aren't. At any rate, I always tell everyone do your own due diligence.

    You are back on ignore. Permanently.
  6. bone

    bone ET Sponsor

    Any vendor that makes market calls - either through a subscription service, or as part of an educational service, should show a track record and not make shitty excuses for crappy years.
  7. bone

    bone ET Sponsor

    So, Lucias, does this mean that you will stop with the unilateral trolling like in the Prop vs. CTA thread, where I was exchanging info with Chinook about Chicago prop deals and just clear out of the blue you inserted yourself into the thread and started some shit ?