How can one make the transition from debtor to lender [if that isn't every trader's goal then what is?] when one is being forced into more debt with worse terms? Being conscientious is like working, it's non profit... WIN stands for Work Is Nonprofit. Screwing around with credit just fell out of the picture somehow once I got out of the herd of sheep.... the deal is the debtor can pay and try to have a credit rating or not pay and not play the credit game. I very abruptly one day decided they and everybody else could take their credit thingy and put it so far up their ass sideways that their eyes exploded... The CC companies corner people... it is sadistic nearly, they know where you work, etc.. they jack your rates for minor infractions.. When I'm cornered I start trying to kill people, that's me... I told some collector that I might be out of work but I wasn't out of time and money and if I needed to level the playing field by finding where he sleeps at night I'd do it... You goodie goodies.... I have them all up and down the block here, can't stand any of 'em...