Right, Livermore is another classic example of how neurosis and trading greatness often go hand in hand. You've been around the block a few times, you'll probably understand my point in this recent post: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79898&perpage=6&pagenumber=45 "You don't know many 7-figures earning traders, do you? From a distance you may picture such traders as cool and collected suave gentlemanly types... but reality is far different. Most super-traders are flush with 'Davinci Type' characteristics. These hallmark traits include, but are not limited to: *Immature, impatient and impulsive behavior. *ADD/ADHD *Always Restless *Little self repression *Energetic- Even hyperactive demeanor *Non-conformist/Rebellious/Iconoclastic *Fearless to the point of recklessness *Sexually driven, never satisfied with monogamy *Lateral thinking *Obsessive hyper-focus *Prone to drug addiction *Hot tempered While you may see most of these traits as shortcomings, they are often an unavoidable and inseparable part of the complete star-trader package."
Woooo...this is dangerous territory you're treading on. lol I could name quite a few examples of some the items on your list. Too bad I can't remember them.
it sounds like you have been offered a seat in what amounts to a churn'em and burn'em "prop" shop, NOT a job. the food for these organizations is primarily young, enthusiastic, nieve kids just out of college who have 10x the enthusiasm but not the experience or common sense to see what a bumb deal it is. Keep the enthusiasm, but with time the common sense and experience will grow, and u will be in a better position to evaluate these things. A Job is when you are payed to do specific tasks to perform specific types of work. U, at this prop firm, will likely be charged fees, commisions, etc, taking a large % of your 5k each month, before the almost certain trading losses you will have. Aside from the false impression this firm has presented the public, It is almost certain they will teach you a style of trading that has very little chance of making you money, and a maximum amount of revenue for them. This is not 7 years ago during the super bubble, this is not 20 years ago on the floor.. its a different world.. these old ways of entering the industry and having a real shot at success are by and large dead or dying, companies that are clinging to that "model" in my experience are turning to more and more dishonest methods of promotion because, quite frankly, it is not working anymore. See where the industry is heading, and focus on the skills and approaches that will be apart of that.
ameriprise financial = american express. since when did american express open a 5k down prop shop and start deceptive "job" advertising? something is fishy here. regards, surf
When I was looking for a position out of college I found that as long as I put up $5k I could get a "job" as a prop trader. They give you the shot to trade with your own money and once its gone, either front another $5k or leave. They don't loose. What you should be looking at is your buying power, if they are going to give you 75k to trade with, you are not going to make a living, if they will up that later on then it may be worthwhile. If you are really serious about prop I would try to get into a company that will pay you a salary or at the least you don't have to front money. Your payout is not going to be as high, but further on down the road you will get the buying power you need to make up for the payout and it will be much more than 75k without risking your own capital. I know Hold Brothers has a program out of college that you don't have to front any money, and if you go with Schonfeld, their Opus and Trillium trading have a base salary for a year or so. If you want some real-life info feel free to PM me. -CT
I was in the same situation as you about 2.5 years ago. Graduated from college, then took a job at a prop shop. They only required me to put up $1500, got a 60/40 payout; no desk fees; and .008 commissions....real shitty deal, i now know that. The shop was essentially was a room filled with losing traders....people trading one minute charts, trading 40-50 round trips/per day trying to make 5cents per trade, and basically finishing the day even once commissions where taken into account. The firm said there would be a big training program upon starting....this was not the case (the training program was a complete joke). The branch manager would always be looking over everyones shoulders and forcing everyone to keep extremely tight stops (5 - 10 cents), and not allow any positions to be held overnight. You wouldn't believe the way some people would trade....everyone would just take the offer when going long; average down on losers; trade 1 minute timeframes; and no one had a trading strategy/plan. It was basically just a room full of losing traders just throwing darts at a board all day long. I actually was a semi-profitable trader before taking the job (i basically just wanted the extra buying power); and i actually ended up losing my $1,500 within 3 months - i ended up becoming a worse trader since starting. So after blowing up (and feeling really depressed about the whole situation) I talked with some cbot floor traders friends of mine (22 year locals) and they basically said, success does not depend on having enough capital, but in deploying it properly. They then urged me to just open a futures account with some of the money i had in savings ($3800) and i started trading the YM, Corn, and 10yr note in 1 and 2 lots. I had some success and have been doing it ever since. Slowing working my initial 3,800 into well over 30k. Working in a prop firm like that did give me the opportunity to really see how the "loser" trades and thinks - after looking back i think that was worth the $1500. It also gave me the chance to basically practice trading the DIA and SPY in 200 - 500 lots - which drastically sped up my learning curve once i moved into futures. If you want some more specific information on the firm, and some of the techniques they used to "keep the loser playing" and churring commissions just PM me. So my advice would be - just open a futures account with the 5k, and trade small size, also try to meet some professionals that already have a track record to kinda mentor you and go over trades and teach you techniques. You'll be far better off in the long run, and i'd be willing to bet that you wont blow the 5k if you keep your trade size proportional to your account size and honor your stops.
Answer me the following question. How many successful prop traders have you met? How many have you read about? I guess its possible that someone could be successful doing it and there are probably many. I just dont read about or meet too many of them. Look up any successful man on the wikipedia and go through their backgrounds. You will find that many had humble beginnings and were not prop traders. My standard advice is to save as much as you can as soon as you can using proven old-time strategies. A balanced mutual fund is a good place to start. DRIP plans for well known dividend paying companies, i.e. McDonalds, 3M, etc, is another one. Its hard to give advice not knowing the companies that are giving offers. Why dont you name names? Tell us your background and your plan. You must know one thing about companies in general. Most will screw you one way or the other at some point and in some way. There are very few that work for companies and feel very fulfilled by the experience or who truly believe that they have been treated very well. On the other hand, prop trading is a huge gamble. In conclusion, save, save, save. Dont buy new cars, live with your parents if you can and live a humble existence. If you get 50 bucks in your hand then dont spend it. Even placing it in a savings bond is better then spending it on something temporary. The first 10 years out of college is the most important part of your life as far as savings and investment. Savings and investment established earlier on in life leads to huge rewards later on.
look, get a real job, not one you have to buy. save some money, have vacation pay holiday pay etc. then teach yourself to find the long term trend of the market, read about position trading, keep your job,dable with trend, then try to read it in shorter time frames monthly, weekly daily, until you see patterns in your sleep, keep your job!