16 years 9 months, crazy fast global warming

Discussion in 'Politics' started by futurecurrents, Jun 8, 2014.

  1. Ffox

    Ffox

    Nice try futurecurrents. But your so called “spike” is like so much that you push - a red herring. Your plot of CO2 mixes apples and oranges. The only value that is CO2 in the atmosphere is the very last data point. Everything else is CO2 inferred from ice. Those values were shown by Jaworowski not to equal CO2 in the ancient atmosphere.

    http://www.warwickhughes.com/icecore/

    Before the 20<sup>th</sup> century, you don’t know what atmospheric CO2 was.
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    #371     Jun 23, 2014
  2. jem

    jem

    Thank you for that link... here is one of the issue...
    http://www.warwickhughes.com/icecore/

    FALSE LOW PRE-INDUSTRIAL CO2 IN THE ATMOSPHERE

    Determinations of CO2 in polar ice cores are commonly used for estimations of the pre-industrial CO2 atmospheric levels. Perusal of these determinations convinced me that glaciological studies are not able to provide a reliable reconstruction of CO2 concentrations in the ancient atmosphere. This is because the ice cores do not fulfill the essential closed system criteria. One of them is a lack of liquid water in ice, which could dramatically change the chemical composition the air bubbles trapped between the ice crystals. This criterion, is not met, as even the coldest Antarctic ice (down to –73oC) contains liquid water[2]. More than 20 physico-chemical processes, mostly related to the presence of liquid water, contribute to the alteration of the original chemical composition of the air inclusions in polar ice[3].

    One of these processes is formation of gas hydrates or clathrates. In the highly compressed deep ice all air bubbles disappear, as under the influence of pressure the gases change into the solid clathrates, which are tiny crystals formed by interaction of gas with water molecules. Drilling decompresses cores excavated from deep ice, and contaminates them with the drilling fluid filling the borehole. Decompression leads to dense horizontal cracking of cores, by a well known sheeting process. After decompression of the ice cores, the solid clathrates decompose into a gas form, exploding in the process as if they were microscopic grenades. In the bubble-free ice the explosions form a new gas cavities and new cracks[4]. Through these cracks, and cracks formed by sheeting, a part of gas escapes first into the drilling liquid which fills the borehole, and then at the surface to the atmospheric air. Particular gases, CO2, O2 and N2 trapped in the deep cold ice start to form clathrates, and leave the air bubbles, at different pressures and depth. At the ice temperature of –15oC dissociation pressure for N2 is about 100 bars, for O2 75 bars, and for CO2 5 bars. Formation of CO2 clathrates starts in the ice sheets at about 200 meter depth, and that of O2 and N2 at 600 to 1000 meters. This leads to depletion of CO2 in the gas trapped in the ice sheets. This is why the records of CO2 concentration in the gas inclusions from deep polar ice show the values lower than in the contemporary atmosphere, even for the epochs when the global surface temperature was higher than now.
     
    #372     Jun 23, 2014

  3. So say you and a few dopey right wing denialists. But it's not. It's science. The temp adjustments were totally proper.
     
    #373     Jun 23, 2014

  4. It doesn't work that way. That's a ridiculous way to look at it. And the increase of the heat of the earth has not stopped at all. It is continuing to rapidly rise.

    And who the hell is Rutan? A climate scientist? A science organization like this one...

    American Meteorological Society

    "It is clear from extensive scientific evidence that the dominant cause of the rapid change in climate of the past half century is human-induced increases in the amount of atmospheric greenhouse gases, including carbon dioxide (CO2), chlorofluorocarbons, methane, and nitrous oxide." (2012)

    [​IMG]
     
    #374     Jun 23, 2014
  5. So jem. Is this spike of the last hundred years due to man or not? Actually, it is at 400 ppm now. That's how fast it is rising.

    [​IMG]
     
    #375     Jun 23, 2014
  6. jem

    jem

    Says the agw nutter troll who lies about everything including when creating the title of this thread.


     
    #376     Jun 23, 2014
  7. Nice try lucrumb, but this incarnation of you will also be put on ignore.
     
    #377     Jun 23, 2014
  8. jem

    jem

    are you that slow?

    we just explained to you that we do not even know if we are experiencing a spike because you can't compare ice core proxy data and current instrument data.



     
    #378     Jun 23, 2014

  9. Bumping this in case Ricter missed it amongst all the red herrings.
     
    #379     Jun 23, 2014
  10. Ricter

    Ricter

    Yeah, I missed it. I'm on my laptop and the big graphics require side-scrolling, which I hate, so I tend to skip. Anyway, you're loving this fight the most, so I look forward to your response re jem's post on the problem with calculating former CO2 levels from ice cores.
     
    #380     Jun 23, 2014