Thanks for not declining. Avoiding going in too early was the only parameter on the table. I put up an example of bar 3 BO today. It took a moment or two for the BO to occur; the print shows the delay. My thinking on the first entry is that you are in the trade to get the initial range expansion of the day and, therefore the first reversal is the bounce off the initial range expansion. These things can be referred to the prior end of day range also. By having this lateral reference it just feels comfortable. The second range expansion usually can be related to the EXTREME of th e prior day. You can see how long the debriefing was on the first exit (it turned out to be an exit since one of the conferees was not set up to reverse and I personally felt that everyone was running a little behind being sufficiently ahead of the market). The DOM is what eases a person into SCT trading all the time. In particular the walls are what define the very short trem range of the price flow. There simply is no way to get around the walls. anyone can take exception to this. You can see that the OP is his usual freaked out self about this as a starter. What is the difference if a wall fades ahead of price? there is no difference at all. It is actually fun to see the DOM giving you the timing of the next tic move to BBid or BAsk. Sooner or later you do come to where protection on the DOM exceeds the pace of the market to overcome the wall. this is what you refer to as S or R it turns out. S and R do keep changing, however, and waste time annotating it if you are on the DOM. The per contract money velocity banked was about 5 points per 20 minutes this am; that is a nice cash flow for anyone sitting in front of a few screens just doing 13 to 7 minute type segments. we pulled about half of what was on the table. I wanted to add some contracts and just do a few am's using the bounces off the DOM walls in order to show how the money velocity picks up when you take every move. Were we to add some other stuff like when the wall bounce is going to occur (meaning leaving the wall after residing there for a spell), then the thread would have become interesting because we could pull about twice as many points by just pepping up the carving on each turn. It is easy to trade intrabar on the five minutes when the bar tic volatility gets over 5 tics. think of it as trading every bar one or two times, movement permitting as a consequence of signals being punched to you. This guy, increasenow, is a real twit it turns out. He started a thread on NQ and is saying he is just drinking coffee as usual. he probably is on ignore as much as rcnafield is by now.
I do think that a lot of the evangelists for the DOM must be on CME's payroll. They do charge extra for the DOM. The information in the DOM is incomplete. Decisions based on incomplete information may be sub-optimal. What you need to see is order flow. What you need to do is front-run that order flow.
The posters on this thread have only a superficial undstanding of the true nature of the beast. They just don't get it. Sadly they nevr will. A complete set of data objectiviety processed and collatoroly processed, while indicator based andd supposedly non biased can only be seen as a consaquence of itirative refinement and gaussian fistulas. It is only thru the various delineatioons can the matrix even be glimpsed. The larger matrix or true matrix can be seen at the point of market flow which assures or at least assumes data which impedes it. Its like pissing into the wind. Conventional orthodoxy be dammed. So the question is how to ge around this impediment to undstand the dynamic nature of such a flow that it becomes routine and second nature to those who have give inquiryw to such. Really quite simple when you think about it.
"My thinking on the first entry is that you are in the trade to get the initial range expansion of the day and, therefore the first reversal is the bounce off the initial range expansion." Hmmmmm. You write as if that initial "range expansion" (curious term) occurs in a vacuum. Does it reverse randomly? From exhaustion? Inexplicably in mid-air? Or because there was a test of the prior close? Or of the prior day's pivot? Or of the prior day's high or low? Or of the price prior to the reaction to unexpected pre-opening news? You write as if you have no clue where the reversal will occur, or why. My motto is that if price reverses where there is no line on my chart, it reversed at a line on somebody else's chart, and that I had better figure out where that line was for future reference.
I'm not sure I understand, maybe I am using the term "DOM" incorrectly but what I am posting is my MDTrader (market depth) which shows five levels of bids and offers vertically. This doesnt cost me any money to have, I get it free because I trade on the version of Xtrader offered by my broker. What I am saying is that I use price action on the DOM in conjunction with my charts to gauge my timing when entering. I have picked up on patterns in certain situations and I'll mkt in based on what I see on the DOM. Everything is guided by the chart first and foremost, and if the situation looks good there, then I try and use the DOM and its movement to time my entries.
Ditto here. When I refered to the DOM I was refering to IB's Book Trader which is free and which posts 5 levels as well. And ditto here on Steve's second paragraph as well.
Very few things occur in a vacuum. The opening trade (after synch) is rich in information transmission. Every day the H/L range of the market expands after synch is reached. The synch is reached within 7 to 15 minutes of the open. where markets to be open 24/7, then the mathematics of the market could be continuous function analysis. That will never happen until the financial industry goes global and people with responsibilities work in shifts and do handoffs. Not likely since most decision makers are rich. This is a simplistic thread par excellance. simplistic OP. simplistic questions. I had to construct a simplistic solution. 10 contracts and 2 ticks is a simplistic as it can get. Obviously anyone can detect the vacuum, seemingly randomness, et al and etc... Unfortunately, I posted a print which changed the subject. Of all things I posted, the DOM, which always displays the limits of price movement in the very short term, could have been expanded in a helpful way to get the 2 tick exit straight. There are many more than six Q's that form the context for range expansion and its limits. How many are used is determined by the certainty which I, in my case, require. The rule followed is a "sufficiency" rule; to you my sufficiency appears to be a vacuum. I asked this guy if he wanted to spend 18 days and see Antarctica; he cogently replied that Africa was his choice instead. We can compare notes after we each return. I thought that since we would have had six days at sea, spaced in singles or doubles, that he might learn something. I was an optimist as everyone can see. He likes to drink coffee and chat. I like making people very rich. We have differing goals. The distance to go from simplistic to simple is measured in elegance and by that I mean applying the test of certainty by using sufficiency. I use stalagtites and the wall as shown by the longest for each oscillation on the way to the end of the intial range expansion. A substitute is reading the tape where the tape is BBid, BAsk and the trades that occur. I use two T&S's. One for 50 plus and the other for ALL; they are left and right, respectively. Usually I prefer to axe the BBid and BAsk to slow the tape down. I judge the place holder levels and the "units" on the 50 plus numbers since people ID themselves to others by this means. Most smart money trading is done by partial fills as we all know. Dividing by a number less than 10 yields a constant value in the units position. Using a laptop in Antarctica on a beach surrounded with docile penguins costs a mere 0.68 dollars a minute 968 cents). The feed may be slow (slightly delayed). Who cares. A wall is a wall on the DOM. Seeing the wall and its reflection on the T&S makes it, roughly speaking, unnecessary to see a chart with bars and anotations. Many people have seen me trade with out looking at the price chart. There are videos of it happening in fact. you can read the "putting the pieces together" and see it done (by leafing through the text and illustrations of one trading day) with tables of values only. Almost no data is required to trade simply (meaning elegantly and accutrately with certainty). Look at the making of money and the support systems for doing that. I laid aside some notes for about 20 years at one point in my life. Finally, they had application since the technology had appeared. To do something simple and elegant, takes equipment appropriate to the application. There are two ways to get equipped: buy it when it becomes available or grow it when you have time to spend. First, I spent the time to grow it. Buy it takes much longer. As you see here some people cannot find the DOM. Airhead thinks the DOM is a scam. and he has grown a freakout mind that wow's all over the place. Your list of market articacts in front of the question marks were grow in your mind by the seeds you plants there. they will always grow there. I didn't grow those in my mind and they are not on my computers and bank of displays. I decided to look only at an annotated NOW and just use what NOW is speaking and obey what I am told to do. I am a parasite of the market and I obey P, V (on YM leading ES in times of change), OTR charts (YM and ES), S/S (YM and INDU premium), and the DOM and 2 T&S's, and a trading book. IF I close thee down I can bring up a table and use it. If I do not want the first set nor the table, I can bring up three indicators and volume: MACD (5, 13, 6); STOCH (5, 2, 3) and STOCH (STD design). The values of the MACD and STOCH I authored long before they becme conventional as the historical Q and A's have recorded. I spent my time. I grew my mind. At some point trading became unconscious for me. I call it sports memory. I now know how the mind works and I shall coauthor on it before long. Along the way I learned that the mind can be wrecked in the process of learning. Learning failure in trading is an irreversable process as is demonstrated PROFOUNDLY in ET. When a person crosses the line, he cannot get back to the other side. The mind does not have an eraser built into it. The mind can only process positives; it drops the negative modifiers. When I speak of no eraser, you are seeing an eraser, for example. When I speak of eraser; you see an eraser, also. Try erasing the eraser. Erase the eraser. Try hared to erase the eraser. How can a person erase the scam from the DOM if he believes it is a scam? It is in his mind and to deal properly, he has to eliminate it as a first recourse by building a mental barrier that stands before this current recourse that is so damaging. how many barriers can a person build if he is not reasoning and working, working hard and purposefully every minute he spends. The OP of this thread starts threads all the time. It is like he goes from field to field and only ploughs one furrough in each. He is an exercise in futility. It is extremely valuable to learn from this example of total screwup. Playing the initial range expansion is a daily certainty. It happens after the synch. The synch is a daily certainty. The premium is announced before the open. There are few prices during any day that are only traded once. Everyone always has a second chance to trade at any price the market trades at. One thing about trading that is very pure and always true is that no one can really bullsh*t themselves and be correct. You have to do the work to know that you know. Helping other people work to become rich is the most fun of all.