USO

Discussion in 'Options' started by oldnemesis, Jan 23, 2016.

  1. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-stocks-join-global-rally-153102948.html#

    http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=uso


    Bottom?

    Trade:
    With USO at 9.27
    July 8/6 bull put spread for a net credit of $46
    Yield = 46/154 = 29.9% in 174 days or 63% annualized
    Prob = 55%
    Expectation = .55(46) - .22(154) - .23(77) = 25.3 - 33.9 - 17.7 = -26.3
    Price.......... Profit / Loss.......... ROM %
    4.00............... (154.00)............. -71.00%
    5.00............... (154.00)............. -71.00%
    6.00............... (154.00)............. -71.00%
    7.29............... (24.80)............... -12.40%
    7.54.................. 0.00 ....................0.00%
    8.00................. 46.00.................. 29.90%
    9.00................. 46.00.................. 29.90%
    10.00............... 46.00.................. 29.90%
    11.00............... 46.00.................. 29.90%
     
    xandman likes this.
  2. xandman

    xandman

    I recently moved from a deep OTM to an ATM in the intermediate term Though, I would like to speculate on a long term flipping of the skew. Not sure how yet.

    Would you mind disclosing (to a level your comfortable with) your system? How automated are you? Are you using canned software with your own parameters? Did you build it? Thanks.
     
  3. Can you explain these calculations in more detail ?
     
  4. I have detailed how I come up with these trades and the meaning of the calculations several times on this board. I really cannot do it again right now.

    Sorry
     
  5. OptionGuru

    OptionGuru

  6. In the posting you reference I showed both a bullish and a bearish trade... depending on how you felt about IBM at that time. How do you know I didn't take the bearish trade??

    Actually I have not done well with IBM in the real world:

    Date........... Action.... ...Qty.... Symbol/Description ....Price.... Commissions.... Net Amount
    03/26/2014 Buy To Close 3 ......IBM Jan15 215 Call ....$4.38 ....$7.48 $0.11 ...($1,321.59) 03/26/2014 Sell To Close 3 ......IBM Jan15 220 Call .....$3.38 ...$7.47 $0.14..... $1,006.39 11/22/2013 Sell To Open 3 .......IBM Jan15 215 Call.....$3.92... $7.47 $0.11..... $1,168.42 11/22/2013 Buy To Open 3....... IBM Jan15 220 Call.... $3.27... $7.48 $0.09 .....($988.57) 11/16/2013 Buy To Close 2....... IBM NOV13 210CALL $0.00 ....$0.00 $0.00 ..........$0.00
    11/16/2013 Sell To Close 2....... IBM NOV13 215CALL $0.00.... $0.00 $0.00.......... $0.00
    10/20/2013 Sell To Close 3....... IBM OCT13 225 CALL $0.00 $0.00 $0.00............. $0.00 10/17/2013 Buy To Close 2....... IBM Nov13 175 Put.... $3.92.... $7.47 $0.06..... ($791.53) 10/17/2013 Sell To Close 2 .......IBM Nov13 170 Put.... $2.12.... $7.48 $0.07....... $416.45 09/25/2013 Buy To Close 3 .......IBM Oct13 220 Call.... $0.02.... $4.95 $0.09....... ($11.04) 09/20/2013 Sell To Open 2 .......IBM Nov13 175 Put.... $1.07.... $3.73 $0.07....... $210.20 09/20/2013 Buy To Open 2 .......IBM Nov13 170 Put.... $0.63.... $3.74 $0.06...... ($129.80) 09/20/2013 Sell To Open 2 .......IBM Nov13 210 Call.... $0.33... $3.74 $0.07.......... $62.19 09/20/2013 Buy To Open 2....... IBM Nov13 215 Call.... $0.15... $3.74 $0.06......... ($33.80) 04/22/2013 Buy To Open 2....... IBM Oct13 225 Call..... $0.64... $7.48 $0.07....... ($135.55) 04/22/2013 Buy To Open 1....... IBM Oct13 225 Call..... $0.64... $0.00 $0.03......... ($64.03) 04/22/2013 Sell To Open 2....... IBM Oct13 220 Call..... $0.95... $7.47 $0.08......... $182.45 04/22/2013 Sell To Open 1....... IBM Oct13 220 Call..... $0.95... $0.00 $0.03........... $94.97 11/02/2011 Sell To Close 4....... IBM Apr12 120 Put...... $1.32... $7.47 $0.09......... $520.44 11/02/2011 Buy To Close 4....... IBM Apr12 125 Put...... $1.67... $7.48 $0.08........ ($675.56) 10/19/2011 Buy To Open 4....... IBM Apr12 120 Put...... $1.84... $7.48 $0.08........ ($743.56) 10/19/2011 Sell To Open 4....... IBM Apr12 125 Put...... $2.19... $7.47 $0.10.......... $868.43
    Total .............................................................................................................($365.09)

    (I'm sorry but I just can't get the whole table to post correctly).


    So...since 2011 I have lost $365.09 on IBM, and I have not made any real IBM trades since 2014. because trading IBM has not been profitable for me.

    While I may or may not post IBM trades as situations arise I do not actually trade IBM. The reason is that I frankly don't understand IBM as a business. While I think WATSON is a tremendous advance I don't really know how that will or won't make money for the company. If you read the description of what IBM does for a living you will find a bewildering array of services and even cloud computing services. Too bewildering for me.

    As for the "hard grind" in making up a full loss.. that is inherent in doing credit spreads. Thus if you trade credit spreads you must try to avoid a full loss if at all possible. Usually you only have to take a full loss when there is a full fledged black swan event that was completely unexpected. This is very rare in larger well followed companies. I would say considerably rarer than 12/1.

    On bull put credit spreads I always exit the trade if the stock contradicts the assumptions of the trade. Whether this would have been before the max loss or not for IBM I cannot say since I don't follow the company.

    On looking at IBM in retrospect I posted the trade with IBM at 166...I HOPE I would have pulled the trade at 135 (P&L = 0) or before as the bull put trade assumptions were certainly violated by that point.

    As I have said many many times what I post are trade IDEAS. I do not post trade management or portfolio management... which are far more individualized.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016