Hi everyone, Would appreciate some advice as a new trader. I currently work in a prop firm and have been making money trading the ES o/n. Small but consistent amounts monthly. The issue that has always been bugging me is that, what happens if a trader does not work out as a trader? That is the income isn't stable/sufficient for him/her to survive on. What would the possible routes be for a trader after? I have been only trading about 5 months in the firm but have spent 2-3 years going through the fluff in trading. I do plan to do this for a year and see where this gets me and the past 5 months have actually exceeded my expectations. However, there is always the 'what if' at the back of my head when things don't work out. Are there even any jobs that require trading experience apart from trading itself? 1 year isn't exactly a shit load of time so I'm quite willing to give it up to try this endeavor as compared to going into the working world and be a drone. Thanks in advance!
EVEYRTHING IS A TRADE.. if taking a job in the industry and keeping your trading on the side is a better trade, then take it... Trading takes time and energy, it has to pay or its not worth it
Let's hope your fear of loss will keep you in check and you will not let your bets exceed your ability/ knowledge. Should trading not work out and it is your passion you'll get a side job to keep trading going like actors do or you'll take a couple of years off to replenish your account and give it another shot. If trading is not your passion and you are merely doing it for money then you'll get another job and trading will be an unpleasant memory. While everything is a trade only jobs that require trading experience are on Wall St...
Hi sir. I've traded for 5.5 years now and have some input. Trading was my first career (A close and generous friend got me into the job and I am forever greatful) and I have no regrets. I came straight out of uni and into a prop firm. I also got lucky that it was literally the best and only legit prop firm in australia that didn't scam you (most prop firms have extremely tight risk management on short end products and just want you to do brokerage for them) Youre having small but consistent months and you should know that the power of Green months is the strongest aura one can carry as a trader. Everyone here just yearns for that achievement so well done. If a trader doesnt work out as a trader, there's a few things that happen 1. Our prop firm just keeps backing them hoping they turn it around. Usually when people hit below a certain dollar figure they just keep gambling and trading and it is always sour. The truth is that is always people willing to help you out (like me, Im always there for you) but a lot of people have an ego and actually never make it. So they just sit around for 3-12 months longer than they should and end up getting another desk job. Usually its in finance, but sometimes its something random. One of my friends does Uber now, another went and did Construction for his brother. Both could have made it if they just changed their trading hours a bit and took what I said onboard a little more seriously 2. They join an algorithm firm and watch the book or have a more risk-free type of role in risk or being a watchmen. I dont know how long people last here but they are just happy to be 'in the market field' with no risk and taking a salary role. One of my friends is actually waiting for spread markets to restore themselves again before jumping so hes basically parking himself at a firm. I think this is rare though. 3. They go to another job and save up money and punt on their own account. I really dont advise this. People take time off after being a 'failed trader' and then 6-12 months later they look at the market again with fresh motivation and optimism. This never ends well. They forget WHY they didn't make it in the first place. Theyre chart trading, or dont have proper risk management, or arent on track of the Tier 1 data release... hey I could go on forever. Anyway, if I was done with trading I would be OUT of the short-term market for good. If you didnt make money doing it full time.. why would you make money part-time? ********* How I got through the tough times (there are ALWAYS tough times, and sometimes it lasts for 6-12 months), is I literally decided I would rather die on my knees fighting for this career, then go to a desk job. If you decide this for yourself and muster up the hunger and fire inside, then you'll be able to clutch yourself into success. The learning curve is steep, forever changing, and you have to constantly adapt. I have heard of big guys 'sizing down' but its one thing to hear about it, and another thing to do it. I've had to literally press the "Emergency Reset" button a few times and it sucks big time at first, but then when you learn something new and you evolve, you feel like you just bought a brand new RPG game and you're starting a fresh character again. I guess I'll end with this note; when you're struggling, let people know you are struggling. 9 out of 10 will be shark f@ggot scum to you, but there's always 1 good Samaritan somewhere who will open the door for you. Peoples' true colours come out when they start having negative months and they aren't turning stuff around so they go from arrogant sad c*nts to kind and emotional beings. Be aware of this and never fall for it. The kindness I show, is given back to me. I can't solve all the answers and I'm a dumb ass in many aspects... but if you are humble and honest then trust me, you will get friends who help you along the way. We're all a team. You can even post here or send me emails and I can try guide with you specific, clear answers instead of the vague bullsh*t most spastics will try to give you. Every time I hear someone say "You just gotta keep at it" or "Keep going, you'll find something that works" I want to bitch slap them. When someones says this to you, they want you to secretly fail but in the off chance you make it they feel like a wise oracle. If you're an arrogant f*ckwit and you give off this secretive image of being the constant winner, then I don't really need to tell you what happens to those people because we all know, you reap what you sow. Give the gift you gon' get P.S. If youre doing ES trades, what kind of ladders/set up do you have and what do others at the firm do? If youre looking or price action, I heavily advise you bring up the 3 biggest markets with the highest open interest together: Emini, Dow and Nasdaq together. Anyway speak to you soon
Thank you s0mmi for your honest and insightful feedback. All you have said really resonates within me and you've probably gone through this yourself. I know I will want to be trading throughout my entire life because honestly, trading doesn't feel like a job to me at all. It's a myriad of thoughts and what ifs. I'm not sure if I can generate a consistent income within 1-2 years. Plus the thing with trading, once you start to trading with a heavy emphasis on making money because you need to, you start to regress instead of progress. (Making shit trades and hoping for trades instead of seeing trades) Regarding my trading the ES, I primarily trade via price action with volume profile/T&S for added confirmation. Most trades usually occur during Euro open so I do use the DAX for directional indication at times and I have NQ ladder up too. However, the NQ ladder is actually the least looked at per my trading strategy right now. Thank you again for your words and hope to hear from you soon.
@faatshit: I'm not sure what I could advise without kicking you out of your orbit, but first, your doubt is normal and healthy. It prevents you from doing stupid sh!t out of a "hold my beer, I got this" - moment Having thoughts like this is perfectly fine, because - as you said - trading does not feel like a normal job, so it makes you feel a little weird when you are with 9-5 people because you don't belong to their caste. On the other hand, I'm a bit worried for you since...I mean honestly: Trading is the fking greatest thing to do with your pants on. I had to fight for being green for so many years and not even once the idea came to my mind what I'm about to do when I can't trade anymore. Trading for me is where it ends and not where it starts. Imagine yourself doing this for 10 years. Do you really have the passion? Are you really eager to go to your desk each day or are you doing it from a false sense of duty? I mean, this is a career thousands of people would sell their moms for and asking a question like this is like you are a pro football player on top of his game asking what he should do after his retirement. You just don't think like this. Burn the bridges and commit yourself 100% to it. Get bigger in a responsible manner. I promise, you wont be thinking like that when you trade 500 cars outright and bring home 6 figures every month. Think about being a ski - jumper. You don't stand on top of the ramp about to ski down with 60mph and fly a couple of hundred meters and think "what if it doesn't work out? What if I crash and break my neck?" Because if you think you will crash, you will crash. So again, you are in, you are green, you are consistent. That's great, but this is just the beginning. Clear your mind from self doubt, work with a coach on that. And then focus on your task. Get better, get bigger....and probably after a couple of years you will be coming back to ask us if your new Ferrari should be black or red
I would advise you to go and work for a hedge fund or a commodity trading house. That's where you'll meet the brightest people, have the most fun and learn the most. Your survival capacity in such a firm is much higher than in a prop-shop or with your own capital, because the expectations of such firms is much more realistic and half the job involves trading a client's book, depending on what you do, so your sensitivity to trading the market right is much lower.
Hey MrMuppet, I fully agree with you 101% on everything you've said. I have worked in a corporate job before and I didn't like it one bit therefore the choice to take a risk and trade for a full year. I know I'm not supposed to be even thinking what if I don't make it in the industry because thinking so is actually self-fulfilling but it is something I can't help. I feel like there isn't a guarantee in anything and to put it in other terms, this is like a stop loss. I need a point in time to actually tell myself that this may not work out for now but there's no doubt that I will be doing this throughout my life. As for right now, I'm just doing all my best to improve trading in any way possible and trade to the best that I can. Thank you for your advice and I'm all ears to any more stuff you may have to say. Cheers!
I've tried applying to such firms but it is not easy to get in at all. Perhaps I'll still continue searching while at this job and see if I get a lucky break. Thanks winter!
Maybe PM me your CV and I can give you a few advises. Getting into the hedge fund circle is very tough but once you're in, you're in.