TOS cash and sweep net liquidation confusion

Discussion in 'Trading' started by wxytrader, Dec 18, 2023.

  1. Cash & sweep: 12k
    Net liquidation: 5k
    Open positions P/L (credit spreads) -2k

    So if I close all positions my total cash will be?

    cs.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2023
  2. destriero

    destriero


    5K +/-

    upload_2023-12-18_17-42-44.png
     
  3. So whats cash and sweep? If you open a credit spread it increases by the premium received, and will decrease by the amount you close it for...so essentially isn't that your cash?

    "Also known as Net Liquidation Value, is the current value of all holdings in your portfolio. "

    I assume by holdings they are referring to open positions not cash.

    I was looking at a 2014 Silver Gallardo over summer but decided to go with the Emira.


    Update: I loaded the csv into tradezella and it has the P/L correct...tos is a mess when it comes to accounting...even they don't understand it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2023
  4. mervyn

    mervyn

    Net liq including your mark to market pnl and unfunded obligations for short positions.
     
    destriero likes this.
  5. destriero

    destriero

    Don't worry about it. You're not MTM at year's end. All that matters is your net liq on Jan 1 and Dec 31 (excluding cash transfers).
     
  6. So basically ignore the mess on tos and go with what tradezella gleaned from the csv. I mean they don't even account for rolling trades into P/L break even. So if you roll a trade for -.16 it will not show anywhere but the cash & sweep...your p/l on the new position will not take into account the roll so you could close thinking its at break even and take losses. My spreadsheet can keep better track of trades.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2023
  7. destriero

    destriero

    FIFO. Cash and Sweep is meaningless for taxes. The trade doesn't know it was a roll...
     
  8. I actually created FIFO calculation on my spreadsheet...no script just formulas. Anyway it was quite the task..most people don't realize that if you buy 100 shares at $10 and 50 shares at $5 that your weighted average is $7.50 overall, but if you sell 100 shares you now have 50 shares @ $5 not $7.50. Anyway, yeah they can do whatever they want on their back end but should offer more on the front end... should just keep the original position and track the rolls..then you can even have a progress bar that shows how much of the original credit is still remaining because you gave some back.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2023
  9. TheDawn

    TheDawn

    If you close all your positions, your total cash would be: original cash before the trade + profit/loss from closed position(s). I assume you know how to calculate profit/loss from your closed position(s).

    I never look at those brokers' information except commission information and original cash amount just to make sure the broker didn't steal from me. I only use the above formula. It's served me well.
     
  10. Here is what I'm talking about. On tos it is showing a loss of -$687 but it is not taking into account the rolls if any. In this case the position has been rolled for -.03 (-$75) so your actual losses would be -$762.50 because you have really only collected $2425 in credit. TOS just applies roll debit to the cash but there is no account for it anywhere else. So technically you are closing the current position for -$687.50 and will have realized the -$75 in your cash, but it's confusing and you don't have the correct numbers in front of you if you forget about the roll. Like the other day I was looking at a trade and at a glance it was showing a $200 profit, but had forgot that I had rolled the position for -.16 so in reality I was only up $40, so closing it would have been premature since there is plenty of DTE.

    tos.jpg


    IMO it needs to be revamped to show all the relevant information like my spreadsheet does.

    tos2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2023
    #10     Dec 19, 2023