Talking about Behavior in Trading the NQ

k p · Jan 10, 2015

Not wanting to muddy Db's Straight Line thread, I wanted to start a new journal here and invite those people who want to discuss the all important aspects of behavior in trading.

artemstreb · Jan 10, 2015

welcome thread !

indices are interrelate. nothing happen to one that not influence other.

let talk

artemstreb · Jan 10, 2015

HFT know trendline, the old & simplest of concept price behavour. they take advantage of proponent.

bmwhendrix · Jan 10, 2015

artemstreb said:
HFT know trendline, the old & simplest of concept price behavour. they take advantage of proponent.
More...

KP, I'll get the ball rolling with repeating something that I believe either DB or 40D said recently which makes the pattern/behavior concept more clear. If you are just focusing on a pattern, like a pattern recognition program would, you will be taking trades in areas where low probability trades exist, and also trading a stupid pattern that may have just ocured at random.

What is missing is the context, that is, are we at an extreme or a level where traders are unwilling to trade. Here a pattern may have value, but to me offers nothing that just observing the ebb and flow of price does not.

artemstreb · Jan 10, 2015

bmwhendrix said:
KP, I'll get the ball rolling with repeating something that I believe either DB or 40D said recently which makes the pattern/behavior concept more clear. If you are just focusing on a pattern, like a pattern recognition program would, you will be taking trades in areas where low probability trades exist, and also trading a stupid pattern that may have just ocured at random.

What is missing is the context, that is, are we at an extreme or a level where traders are unwilling to trade. Here a pattern may have value, but to me offers nothing that just observing the ebb and flow of price does not.
More...

i agree our trade not base on pure mathematic. we not HFT. we not purely or even incidental math-based trader. EVERYTHING, for we must have contexual!!

i have have no phd math in yr 2015. i recognize my great disadvantage and adjust..accordingly

Redneck · Jan 10, 2015

fortydraws said:
It means very intently watching that little tick move and do it with an eye toward discovering how price behaves before it drops from a high or rallies from a low or as it pauses or pulls back from a breakout and how it resumes its trend. I know that what you want from me is a schematic or recipe or model or a checklist or blueprint that shows what a failure and reversal look like before the failure, I just don't have it to give. I'd share it if I had it, but trading by price is a learned skill not a set of rote exercises. I didn't get it from DbPhoenix. DbPhoenix told me what to do to get it, and so that's what I did.

The only thing I can say that might help get the point across is this: You must watch price and make your task not "how can I make a profit and avoid a loss." You must seriously make it your goal first to understand what it is doing now, at this very minute. Then, why is it changing its behavior here? Then how can I put together what I learned about what price is doing and how it changes so that I can learn to anticipate those changes. Only after you can do that does it make any sense to think you have a chance of making a profit from anticipating those changes. By behavior think trending, ranging, thrusting, drifting, marching, dribbling - come up with whatever vocabulary helps you describe and understand what you are seeing.

Watch it live or live simulated replay. It is the only way, imo. On a live chart, I can watch a 5 minute bar and as long as it shows the last tick nub on the side, I'm good to go.

You learn to determine this by very intently watching price unfold in real time or through live simulated market replay. It matters because you make money by teaming up with high quality traders, not low quality trader. Poor demand was evident when I posted here yesterday in post #244 that I suspected a new leg down was commencing.

I have an idea on how maybe I can illustrate this. I'll post it later.
More...

Work with me here a minute

we purchase a dime novel and read it

from the written words

we derive the characters..., the plot..., the character's behavior

exact same holds true when with trading / reading PA - only difference - we exploit the behavior

RN

artemstreb · Jan 10, 2015

study medicine, learn basic cell on up to complexity brain function. trade? watch every tick every minute every day.

alternative? PhD math. non-math trader must devote every minute every day

break even daytrade 2015, sig accomplishment

k p · Jan 10, 2015

fortydraws said:
It means very intently watching that little tick move and do it with an eye toward discovering how price behaves before it drops from a high or rallies from a low or as it pauses or pulls back from a breakout and how it resumes its trend. I know that what you want from me is a schematic or recipe or model or a checklist or blueprint that shows what a failure and reversal look like before the failure, I just don't have it to give. I'd share it if I had it, but trading by price is a learned skill not a set of rote exercises. I didn't get it from DbPhoenix. DbPhoenix told me what to do to get it, and so that's what I did.

The only thing I can say that might help get the point across is this: You must watch price and make your task not "how can I make a profit and avoid a loss." You must seriously make it your goal first to understand what it is doing now, at this very minute. Then, why is it changing its behavior here? Then how can I put together what I learned about what price is doing and how it changes so that I can learn to anticipate those changes. Only after you can do that does it make any sense to think you have a chance of making a profit from anticipating those changes. By behavior think trending, ranging, thrusting, drifting, marching, dribbling - come up with whatever vocabulary helps you describe and understand what you are seeing.

Watch it live or live simulated replay. It is the only way, imo. On a live chart, I can watch a 5 minute bar and as long as it shows the last tick nub on the side, I'm good to go.

You learn to determine this by very intently watching price unfold in real time or through live simulated market replay. It matters because you make money by teaming up with high quality traders, not low quality trader. Poor demand was evident when I posted here yesterday in post #244 that I suspected a new leg down was commencing.

I have an idea on how maybe I can illustrate this. I'll post it later.
More...

Most excellent... and I look forward to that illustration.

Fully understood about watching price and not even being worried about entry and exit... hence why I wanted to start this thread to just focus on behavior.

So then it would seem that reading a tick chart you're saying isn't good enough because you're not watching how the thrust to the next up tick moves or down tick? Even if you have a series of 10 transactions where price goes up one tick and then down one tick and just goes back and forth, there would be a "feel" to how quickly the up tick happens as opposed to the down tick? (where as if you were to look at the tick chart at the end of the day all you see is an up tick and down tick without knowing how quickly the up tick came and how quickly the down tick came?)

k p · Jan 10, 2015

bmwhendrix said:
What is missing is the context, that is, are we at an extreme or a level where traders are unwilling to trade. Here a pattern may have value, but to me offers nothing that just observing the ebb and flow of price does not.
More...

I fully agree that its all about context and what matters is where this struggle is happening.

Javier · Jan 10, 2015

patterns are used to trade against to, except when is needed the crowd. This is at all levels not only graphs.