Russia China love hate relationship

Discussion in 'Politics' started by VicBee, Sep 15, 2022.

  1. VicBee

    VicBee

    https://www.rfi.fr/en/international...tinues-to-occupy-swathes-of-chinese-territory

    Ticking timebomb as Russia continues to occupy swathes of Chinese territory

    Russian President Vladimir Putin is to meet China's Xi Jinping Thursday for the first time since Moscow's invasion of Ukraine. Russia and China share a strong bond, facing off against the West, but the friendship is threatened by the unresolved issue of 600,000 square kilometres of Chinese territory near Vladivostok, occupied by Russia since 1860.

    The Putin-Xi meeting will take place in Samarkand, Uzbekistan, under the auspices of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO), a security alliance created by Beijing in 1996, made up of core members China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. India, Pakistan, Uzbekistan and Iran were later added as full members.

    This is Xi's first trip abroad since the start the Covid-19 pandemic, and he is meeting with the SCO and Putin “at a time when Putin's war is going badly in Ukraine," Steve Tsang, Director of the School of Oriental and African Studies China Institute, told RFI.

    “It shows the level of support that Xi Jinping is committed to give to Putin.”

    Since the start of the invasion China has paid lip service to Russia’s propaganda, while never endorsing it, and calling for “respect of sovereignty”. Beijing has also refused overt military support of Russia’s war efforts
    Doing so might “trigger secondary sanctions against China,” according to Tsang, something Beijing is not willing to contemplate.

    The result is “an almost absurd situation in which both Russia and China talk about a strategic partnership. But Russia, while short of weapons, cannot get resupplies from China and is buying them from North Korea".

    Friendship turned sour

    An article on the website of the official Chinese paper Nanfang Daily discussing the upcoming summit refers to the first foreign trip Xi made when he became China’s supreme leader in 2013. Destination: Moscow.

    Xi chose the Russian capital, according to the newspaper, to “show the great importance that China attaches to the development of Sino-Russian relations”.

    As a gift, Putin offered Xi a copy of the USSR’s Communist mouthpiece Pravda of 14 February 1950, when then Chinese leader Mao Zedong and the Soviet Union's Joseph Stalin signed their ill-fated Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship.

    But after Stalin’s death, relations between China and Russia deteriorated quickly. Mao hated Moscow’s de-Stalinisation - which he saw as a direct attack on his own personality cult - and the Soviets did not understand why China focused on the peasantry instead of the urban proletariat to advance socialism.

    The result was a massive ideological rift that led to deadly border skirmishes which were resolved only after the fall of the Berlin Wall, lengthy border negotiations and a series of demarcation treaties.

    The relationship improved after the start of China’s Open-Door policy in 1978 and the visit of Soviet leader Michael Gorbachev in 1989.

    But in that same year, the ultimate demise of European communism started, leading to the fall of the Soviet Union itself, something for which Beijing blamed Gorbachev.

    Today, the two countries find common ground in their shared regret of the fall of the USSR, their dislike of the US, and the eastward expansion of NATO.

    But the current love affair between China and Russia has all the elements of a marriage of convenience.

    'Vladivostok' or 'Haishenwai'?

    “There are structural problems in the relationship between Russia and China,” says Tsang.

    Probably the largest elephant in the room is a swathe of some 600,000 square kilometres north of China’s Heilongjiang province, an area currently called “Primorsky Krai”, which has the port town of Vladivostok as its administrative center.

    Vladivostok was once a Chinese city known as Haishenwai and was part of China's Qing dynasty. It was annexed by Russia in 1860 after China's defeat by the British and French forces in the Second Opium War. The area has been administered by Russia ever since.

    Today, in spite of the numerous treaties that have defined the border between China and Russia, the idea that the vast area surrounding Vladivostok is Chinese is still strongly present among Chinese commentators.

    The issue flared up in 2020, when the Russian embassy to China published a tweet celebrating Vladivostok's 160th anniversary.

    The Tweet "isn’t so welcome on Weibo", China's Twitter, wrote commentator Shen Shirwei.

    According to the Russian embassy, the history of Vladivostok - which means Ruler of the East - is from 1860 when Russia built a military harbour.

    But Shen says "the city was Haishenwai as Chinese land before Russia annexed it via [the] unequal Treaty of Beijing".

    The stretch of land became part of the Qing empire in 1689, under the Treaty of Nerchinsk, the first ever treaty between Tzarist Russia and the Qing. The 1860 Peking Treaty reversed the Nerchinsk document and granted the area to Russia.

    "It provides a basic limit to how closely Russia and China will work together," according to Tsang.

    For now, Beijing does not seem inclined to criticise Russia in the way it has been relentlessly attacking the UK for imposing "150 years of shame" on China - the period covering Britain's colonisation of Hong Kong.

    But, according to Tsang, Moscow knows and the issue will continue to hang dangerously over relations between the two countries.
     
    jason84 and Nobert like this.
  2. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

     
  3. Quite soooooooooooooooooooo!!

    I have done three posts on that.

    Wherein I said that eventually Xi would be using Putin's logic against him and move to reclaim the eastern Siberia land that historically part of China.

    Yeyessssss!!! In the long run Xi is going to putinize Putin.
     
  4. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

  5. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    [​IMG]
     
    Nobert and VicBee like this.
  6. Atlantic

    Atlantic

    https://oilprice.com/Geopolitics/Asia/Xi-Is-Set-To-Be-Re-Elected-As-Chinas-Leader.html

    comment:

    Cristian on September 26 2022 said:

    "
    Living and actively working in China since a decade and traveling for about 5 months a year in each corner of the country, I feel free to say that I never saw such disgrace as last two years. The discomfort and unhappiness caused by the CCP is endless for not mention all the collapsing economy in each sectors. Xi dragged down his country and it’ll take long long time to recover if can be recovered.
    "
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2022
  7. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    Looks like China is tired of Putin. Their leaders are now publicly calling Putin crazy.

    Chinese Official Calls Putin 'Crazy' As Beijing's Distrust Against Russia Grows: FT
    https://www.ibtimes.com/chinese-off...ings-distrust-against-russia-grows-ft-3655604
    • China was reportedly blindsided by Putin's full-scale invasion of Ukraine
    • China found out Russia's intention to invade Ukraine only after Putin announced the start of his special military operation
    • Chinese officials believe Russia will emerge from the war as a 'minor power'
    A Chinese official on Tuesday called Russian President Vladimir Putin "crazy" as mistrust toward Russia grows among the upper echelons of Beijing.

    During a video conference last month, Chinese President Xi Jinping pledged to deepen Beijing's bilateral ties with Moscow. However, some people in the upper echelons of the Chinese Communist Party may not share the views of their leader.

    "Putin is crazy," a Chinese official, who declined to be identified, told The Financial Times. "The invasion decision was made by a very small group of people. China shouldn't simply follow Russia."

    The official's comments come as distrust against Russia continues to grow amid the war in Ukraine. The outlet noted that at least five senior Chinese officials said the distrust began after China was blindsided by Putin's invasion, only finding out about Russia's intention to launch a full-scale attack on Ukraine until after the Russian leader ordered the start of the so-called "special military operation."

    Another official told the publication that Putin only told Xi that Russia "would not rule out taking whatever measures possible if eastern Ukrainian separatists attack Russian territory and cause humanitarian disasters." China took Putin's statement as a signal for limited military engagement and not a full-scale invasion.

    The outlet also noted that Xi demoted then-vice-minister of foreign affairs and Russia expert Le Yucheng after failing to obtain accurate information about Putin's plans, leaving China unprepared.

    "Le was demoted by two levels of seniority," a Chinese official said, according to the outlet. "He was held responsible for the intelligence failure on Russia's invasion."

    Several Chinese officials, who also spoke to the outlet on condition of anonymity, also said they believe Russia would likely emerge from the war as a "minor power."

    The reporting comes as Russia's struggle in the war in Ukraine continues. U.S. and Ukrainian officials have told CNN that Russia's artillery fire is down by as much as 75% in some areas.

    In addition to dwindling artillery rounds, the Russian army also lost 112,470 military personnel as of Tuesday, including 710 soldiers who were killed the previous day, as per estimates from the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine.
     
  8. VicBee

    VicBee

    And yet a number of Republicans and Fox commentators are still openly supporting Russia in the conflict.... Stunning.
     
    Cuddles, Tony Stark and gwb-trading like this.
  9. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    China better tread carefully. They are walking a fine line from an international relations and trade perspective.

    How Russia's War Against Ukraine Has Negatively Impacted Europeans' Views of China
    Europeans' view of China worsens as alliance with Russia grows
    https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/...negatively-impacted-europeans-views-of-china/

    China’s support for Russia in its war against Ukraine is having a dramatic—and negative—impact on Europeans’ views of the Communist country, according to a poll published Wednesday.

    China’s partnership with Russia has fueled a shift in public opinion, with a majority of those polled across 13 European countries saying their attitude toward the CCP has worsened during the past year as a result of this relationship. Of the 34 percent of those polled who said they have an unfavorable view of the Communist country, 66 percent attributed that position to the growing Beijing-Moscow alliance.

    The poll, conducted by the International Republican Institute’s Center for Insights in Survey Research, shows China’s credibility is declining, particularly among nations that have historically enjoyed open relations with the Communist regime, such as Austria, Poland, and Croatia. China’s "partnership with and support for Russia" fueled opposition among 66 percent of respondents, while another 50 percent said Beijing’s major human rights crimes contributed to their dimming views.

    China’s relationship with Russia is well-known among those polled, with 88 saying they had knowledge of the issue and 40 percent saying, "China supports or enables the invasion of Ukraine." The war in Ukraine has killed more than 7,000 civilians, injured more than 11,000, and galvanized the international community against Russian leader Vladimir Putin.

    Among those polled, just 33 percent said they had a highly or somewhat favorable view of China. Sixty-one percent of respondents said their view of China is somewhat or highly unfavorable.

    The poll, conducted from July through August of last year, sampled 14,461 individuals across 13 major European nations, including Austria, Poland, Greece, Italy, Hungry, and several other Eastern European nations formerly part of the Soviet Union. The findings show that among the nations located closest to Russia, public support for China is eroding.

    For Russia, the numbers are even more dire: Just 16 percent said they have a highly or somewhat favorable view of Moscow, while 78 percent said their view is somewhat or highly unfavorable.

    Just 6 percent of respondents said their view of Russia improved over the past year, while 9 percent answered the same way for China. Thirty-four percent said their view of China worsened, while 69 percent answered the same way for Russia. A sizable portion also said their view of China and Russia remained about the same.

    China’s efforts to gain control over Taiwan are also becoming more well known among Europeans. Eighty-one percent of those polled said they are aware of the issue, which threatens to drag the United States and allies into a major war to protect the small island.

    In related findings, 80 percent of those polled said it is important for their country to support human rights abroad. China’s abysmal human rights record, for instance, which includes waging a genocide against the Uyghur ethnic minority, contributed in large part to its diminishing public image, with 50 percent of those polled saying human rights issues worsened their view of Beijing.

    Another 39 percent said China’s response to the coronavirus pandemic, which is widely believed to have originated in the Communist country, contributed to their unfavorable views.

    However, the coronavirus is becoming less of a concern overall. Just 13 percent of those polled listed COVID as one of the "most important problems" facing their country. The cost of living and high prices is the most pressing issue, with 57 percent listing it as a top concern.

    The United States fared relatively well in the survey, with 58 percent saying they have a generally favorable view toward America.
     
  10. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    #10     Feb 21, 2023