Provoke them. Break them. Punish their brokenness.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Tuxan, May 24, 2025 at 3:27 PM.

  1. Tuxan

    Tuxan

    This playbook has been used relentlessly by Israeli settlers for over a century. As old as empires and still in play in 2025.

    What’s hard to reconcile is this: many of the Jews I’ve known are steeped in ethics, in conscience, in the long memory of suffering. So why align with such brutal settler fanaticism?

    Zionism began as a survival instinct by some, but in the hands of zealots, it became a colonial theology. They took the Holocaust’s moral lesson and twisted it: not “never again for anyone,” but “never again to US, even if it means doing it to others.”

    The betrayal isn’t just of Palestinians. It’s of Jewish moral tradition itself.

    And this confuses outsiders, especially Christians and Muslims. Because for Jews, it’s often not about belief in God at all. It’s tribe. You can be an atheist, a mystic, or a cynic, and still be fully Jewish, so long as you observe the marks of identity. You can be atheist kabbalist or a socialist cynic as there’s no central dogma, just covenant and kin. This baffles Christians and Muslims who are about universality through narrow scripture, not blood. Security through numbers.

    However they are mad as a box of frogs but keep that opaque. Not many outside the Jewish community know this for example, but just a few centuries ago, 17th century, a man named Sabbatai Zevi convinced huge swaths of the Jewish world that he was the messiah. He didn’t just want redemption, he wanted to move the spiritual center of Judaism. He declared that Gaza, yes, Gaza, should replace Jerusalem as the Jewish capital. Maybe it was the sea air, maybe it was his vision of a fresh start. Either way, his movement was massive.

    But when the Ottoman Sultan gave him a choice, convert to Islam or die, Zevi converted.

    Overnight, messianic ecstasy turned into humiliation. It shattered Jewish communities across Europe and the Middle East. And as with all broken dreams, something much darker remained behind. Some of his followers kept the flame alive, but twisted. This disillusionment helped lay the groundwork for a kind of moral confusion, a messianic trauma, that lead to Zionism and inherent moral insanity: the raw, post-messianic void where divine promises had failed. When God won’t save you, you grab land instead.

    If anybody wants to understand some of the madness? Some of the contradictions? Start there.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2025 at 4:16 PM
    ipatent and insider trading like this.
  2. Tuxan

    Tuxan

    Sabbatai Zevi, making Jews great again ~1666.



    Another mentall I'll, chronic liar and rule breaker dude making a big mess that was not boring to some idiots.

    This documentary, delves into Zevi's mystical teachings and the lasting effects of his movement on Jewish thought. Very informative preamble for the first eight minutes.



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    Last edited: May 24, 2025 at 4:37 PM
  3. Tuxan

    Tuxan

    I should say clearly: I know the path from Sabbatai Zevi to 19th-century Zionism is narrow in terms of strict historical causality. But as a moral, cultural, and psycho-spiritual lineage, it holds up as a lens. I'm not claiming direct influence. What I'm tracing is the sediment of a wounded people’s history and how trauma can calcify into ideology.

    The memory of betrayal, by the gentile world, by false messiahs, by the repeated impotence of Jewish political life, eventually forged a hard, defensive nationalism. In that light, Zionism isn’t purely about colonialism. It is also a fortress built from the rubble of disillusionment. And from within that fortress, some truly dark and brutal ideas have taken root.

    Today, there’s a resurgence of messianic language, grasping at prophecy, reaching for straws. It has the ring of desperation and, increasingly, of madness.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2025 at 5:11 PM
  4. notagain

    notagain

    Trump is surrounded by Zionist, but he won't let them attack Iran.
    Trump see's nationalism as a defense against globalism.
    Accountability leads us away from madness.
     
  5. Tuxan

    Tuxan

    Clearly not in your case.

    Maybe try writing in your native language and we can try to translate that?
     
  6. What year did history start for you?

    Canaanites are still around. According to your libtard logic, why wouldn't the land go back to the Canaanites? Technically, according to Woke ideology, Arabs and Jews are colonialist. You know the toddler temper tantrum that libtards throw. That was mine first.

    The indigenous people of modern day Israel are Canaanites. Not Arabs!

    AI said:

    I. Late Bronze Age (~1550 – ~1200 BCE) – Canaanite Dominance under Egyptian Hegemony

    • Inhabitants: Primarily Canaanites, organized into numerous independent or semi-independent city-states (e.g., Hazor, Megiddo, Gezer, Shechem, Jerusalem, Lachish). These shared a common material culture, language group (Northwest Semitic), and pantheon. There were also nomadic and semi-nomadic groups.

    • Political Context: The region was largely under the suzerainty of the Egyptian New Kingdom. Canaanite rulers were often vassals to the Pharaoh, paying tribute and subject to Egyptian garrisons and administration.

    • Key Evidence:
      • Amarna Letters (~1360-1332 BCE): Diplomatic correspondence found in Egypt, mostly from Canaanite vassal rulers to the Egyptian Pharaoh, detailing inter-city rivalries, pleas for aid, and Egyptian administrative control. Cities like Jerusalem (Urusalim), Shechem, and Megiddo are mentioned.

      • Extensive archaeological remains of Canaanite cities, temples, and artifacts.
    • Towards the end of this period (~1208 BCE): The Merneptah Stele (an Egyptian inscription) provides the earliest known extra-biblical reference to "Israel" as a people or tribal group present in Canaan ("Israel is laid waste, its seed is no more"). This signals the presence of a group identified as Israel by the Egyptians within Canaan.
    II. Iron Age (~1200 – 586 BCE) – Israelites, Philistines, and Kingdoms

    • Iron Age I (~1200 – ~1000 BCE): The Emergence of New Groups
      • Inhabitants:
        • Israelite Tribes: Archaeological evidence shows new, small, unfortified settlements emerging in the central hill country of Canaan. These are often associated with the early Israelites. Their material culture was initially simple (e.g., collared-rim jars, four-room houses).

        • Philistines: One of the "Sea Peoples" who settled along the southern coastal plain (the Pentapolis: Ashdod, Ashkelon, Gaza, Ekron, and Gath). They had a distinct Aegean-influenced material culture.

        • Remaining Canaanite populations: Continued to inhabit city-states, especially in the plains and valleys.
      • Context: This period follows the "Late Bronze Age Collapse," a time of widespread societal upheaval across the Near East and Mediterranean, leading to a decline in Egyptian power in Canaan. There were likely conflicts and interactions between these various groups. This aligns with the biblical period of the Judges.
    • Iron Age IIA (~1000 – ~925 BCE): Early Israelite State Formation
      • Inhabitants: Israelite populations becoming more dominant in certain areas. Philistines in their cities. Other Canaanite and local groups.

      • Context: Biblical tradition places the United Monarchy of Saul, David, and Solomon in this era, with Jerusalem as its capital and the construction of the First Temple. Archaeologically, there is evidence of increasing state formation, urbanization (including Jerusalem's growth), and monumental architecture, though the extent and nature of a "United Monarchy" as described biblically is a subject of ongoing scholarly debate.
    • Iron Age IIB-C (~925 – 586 BCE): The Divided Kingdoms and Assyrian/Babylonian Domination
      • Inhabitants:
        • Kingdom of Israel (North): Predominantly Israelite population. Capital at Samaria.

        • Kingdom of Judah (South): Predominantly Judean (Israelite) population. Capital at Jerusalem.

        • Other local groups continued to exist.
      • Context:
        • ~930 BCE: The United Monarchy (if it existed as a large unified state) splits into the northern Kingdom of Israel and the southern Kingdom of Judah.

        • The Assyrian Empire rises and exerts influence.

        • ~722/720 BCE: The Assyrian Empire conquers the Kingdom of Israel, deports a significant portion of its population (the "Ten Lost Tribes"), and incorporates the area into the Assyrian provincial system. Some Israelites remained, and new populations were settled by the Assyrians.

        • The Kingdom of Judah survives as a vassal state to Assyria and later Babylon.

        • 701 BCE: Assyrian King Sennacherib invades Judah but fails to capture Jerusalem (under King Hezekiah).

        • 586 BCE: The Neo-Babylonian Empire under Nebuchadnezzar II conquers the Kingdom of Judah, destroys Jerusalem and the First Temple, and exiles a significant portion of the Judean elite and population to Babylon (Babylonian Exile). Poorer Judeans remained in the land.
    III. Babylonian and Persian Periods (586 – 332 BCE)

    • Babylonian Period (586 – 539 BCE):
      • Inhabitants: Judeans who were not exiled, people from surrounding regions who may have moved in, and Babylonian administrators. The exiled Judean community in Babylon maintained its identity.

      • Context: Judah becomes a Babylonian province called Yehud.
    • Persian Period (Achaemenid Empire) (539 – 332 BCE):
      • Inhabitants: Returning Judean exiles (now often referred to as Jews) alongside those who never left, as well as other local populations. Samaritans (who also revered the Torah but had their temple on Mount Gerizim) emerge as a distinct community. Persian officials were also present.

      • Context:
        • 539 BCE: Cyrus the Great of Persia conquers Babylon.

        • 538 BCE: Edict of Cyrus allows exiled peoples, including Jews, to return to their homelands and rebuild their temples.

        • The land is the Persian province of Yehud Medinata (the province of Judah).

        • ~516 BCE: The Second Temple is completed in Jerusalem under leaders like Zerubbabel.

        • Mid-5th century BCE: Ezra (a scribe) and Nehemiah (a governor) lead reforms, reinforce Jewish law, and rebuild Jerusalem's walls.
    IV. Hellenistic Period (332 – 63 BCE)

    • Inhabitants: Jews (the majority in Judea), Samaritans, Greeks (soldiers, administrators, merchants who settled after Alexander's conquest), and other Hellenized local populations.

    • Political Context:
      • 332 BCE: Alexander the Great conquers the region from the Persians. Hellenization (spread of Greek culture, language, and institutions) begins.

      • Ptolemaic Rule (301 – 200 BCE): After Alexander's death, the region is controlled by the Ptolemaic Kingdom based in Egypt.

      • Seleucid Rule (200 – 167 BCE): The Seleucid Empire, based in Syria, gains control. Increased Hellenizing pressure.

      • Maccabean Revolt (167 – 160 BCE): Jewish revolt led by the Maccabee family (Hasmoneans) against Seleucid King Antiochus IV Epiphanes' attempts to suppress Judaism and forcibly Hellenize Jerusalem.

      • Hasmonean Dynasty (c. 140 – 63 BCE): An independent or semi-independent Jewish state ruled by the Hasmoneans. It expanded its territory, sometimes forcibly converting or expelling other populations. Internal strife marked its later years.
    V. Roman Period (63 BCE – 324 CE)

    • Inhabitants: Jews (majority), Samaritans, growing communities of early Christians (initially a Jewish sect), Roman administrators and soldiers, and other local Levantine peoples.

    • Political Context:
      • 63 BCE: Roman general Pompey captures Jerusalem, ending Hasmonean independence. Judea becomes a Roman client state, later a province.

      • Herod the Great (37 – 4 BCE): Appointed "King of the Jews" by Rome. Ruled as a Roman client. Known for massive building projects, including a lavish renovation and expansion of the Second Temple in Jerusalem.

      • Direct Roman Rule: After Herod's dynasty, Judea increasingly came under direct Roman administration through procurators.

      • ~4 BCE – ~30 CE: Life of Jesus of Nazareth.

      • First Jewish-Roman War (66 – 73 CE): A major Jewish revolt against Roman rule.
        • 70 CE: Romans under Titus capture Jerusalem, destroy the Second Temple. Mass enslavement, death, and displacement of the Jewish population.
      • Bar Kokhba Revolt (132 – 135/136 CE): Second major Jewish revolt, led by Simon Bar Kokhba.
        • Brutally suppressed by Emperor Hadrian. Jerusalem was rebuilt as a Roman pagan city named Aelia Capitolina, and Jews were largely banned from entering it.

        • The province was officially renamed Syria Palaestina by the Romans, possibly to de-emphasize its Jewish connection.
      • Jewish life and leadership shifted significantly to the Galilee region (e.g., compilation of the Mishnah in ~200 CE). Christian communities slowly grew.
    VI. Byzantine Period (Roman Empire in the East) (324 – 638 CE)

    • Inhabitants: A Christian majority emerged through conversion and imperial patronage. Significant Jewish communities persisted, especially in the Galilee. Samaritan communities also continued, though sometimes in conflict with Byzantine rule.

    • Political Context: The Roman Empire officially adopted Christianity (Constantine). Palestine became a major center of Christian pilgrimage and monasticism. Many churches were built (e.g., Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem).

    • Jewish communities, while facing some legal restrictions, continued their religious and communal life (e.g., compilation of the Jerusalem Talmud, ~400 CE).

    • Samaritan Revolts (5th and 6th centuries): Several uprisings against Byzantine rule, which were harshly suppressed.

    • 614 – 628 CE: Brief Sasanian (Persian) conquest of the region, with some Jewish support, followed by Byzantine reconquest.
    VII. Early Islamic Period (638 – 1099 CE)

    • Inhabitants: Gradual Arabization and Islamization of the majority of the population over centuries. Christians (various Eastern denominations) and Jews remained significant minority communities, considered "People of the Book" (Ahl al-Kitab) with protected (dhimmi) status. Samaritans continued in smaller numbers.

    • Political Context:
      • ~636-638 CE: Arab Muslim armies under Caliph Umar conquer Palestine from the Byzantines. Jerusalem surrenders peacefully. Jews were reportedly allowed back into Jerusalem.

      • Umayyad Caliphate (661 – 750 CE): Palestine (known as Jund Filastin) was an important province. Ramla was established as its administrative capital. The Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque were built on the Temple Mount (Haram al-Sharif) in Jerusalem.

      • Abbasid Caliphate (750 – ~969 CE): Rule shifted to Baghdad, and Palestine became more peripheral, though Jerusalem retained religious importance.

      • Fatimid Caliphate (969 – 1071/1099 CE): A Shi'a dynasty based in Egypt ruled. Period of instability. Caliph Al-Hakim (early 11th century) ordered the destruction of churches, including the Holy Sepulchre (later rebuilt).

      • Seljuk Turk Incursions (late 11th century): Disrupted the region and Christian pilgrimage routes, contributing to the call for the Crusades.
    VIII. Crusader Period (1099 – 1291 CE)

    • Inhabitants: A ruling class of Frankish (Western European) Christians (knights, clergy, merchants, settlers). The majority of the local population remained Muslim Arabs and Eastern Christians. Jewish communities also persisted, though often faced persecution, especially during the initial conquest.

    • Political Context:
      • 1099 CE: The First Crusade captures Jerusalem, establishing the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem and other Crusader states. A massacre of Muslim and Jewish inhabitants of Jerusalem occurred.

      • 1187 CE: Saladin (Ayyubid Sultan) defeats the Crusaders at the Battle of Hattin and recaptures Jerusalem.

      • Subsequent Crusades had varying degrees of success, but Muslim (Ayyubid and later Mamluk) power gradually reasserted itself.

      • 1291 CE: The fall of Acre to the Mamluks effectively ends the Crusader Kingdom in the Levant.
    IX. Mamluk Period (1260/1291 – 1516 CE)

    • Inhabitants: Predominantly Sunni Muslim Arabs. Significant Christian Arab communities (various Eastern rites) and Jewish communities, the latter sometimes augmented by immigration (e.g., after the expulsion from Spain in 1492, some Sephardic Jews settled in Palestine, particularly in Safed, Jerusalem, Tiberias, and Hebron). Samaritans remained a small group.

    • Political Context: The region was ruled by the Mamluk Sultanate based in Egypt. Palestine was divided into administrative districts. Jerusalem, while not a political capital, was an important religious center for Muslims, and the Mamluks endowed it with many religious buildings. Safed became a major center of Jewish mysticism (Kabbalah).
    X. Ottoman Period (1516 – 1917 CE)

    • Inhabitants: The population remained diverse:
      • Palestinian Arabs (Muslim and Christian) formed the majority.

      • Jews: Both long-established (Mizrahi and Sephardic) communities and, increasingly from the late 19th century, Ashkenazi Jewish immigrants associated with the nascent Zionist movement (the "Aliyot").

      • Druze communities, particularly in the Galilee and Carmel region.

      • Bedouin tribes in the Negev and other arid areas.

      • Other smaller groups (e.g., Circassians, Baháʼís who settled in the Acre/Haifa area).

      • Ottoman administrators and soldiers.
    • Political Context:
      • 1516-1517 CE: The Ottoman Empire under Sultan Selim I conquers Palestine from the Mamluks.

      • Suleiman the Magnificent (reigned 1520-1566): Rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem (the current Old City walls). The region experienced periods of stability and development, as well as decline and local autonomy under various Pashas.

      • 19th Century: Increased European political, economic, and religious interest. Growth of modern infrastructure. Beginnings of modern Jewish immigration (Zionism) and early land purchases. Emergence of early forms of Palestinian Arab nationalism in response to Ottoman policies and Zionism.
    XI. British Mandate Period (1917 – 1948 CE)

    • Inhabitants:
      • Arab Palestinians (majority Muslim, significant Christian minority): The established majority population.

      • Jews (the Yishuv): A rapidly growing minority due to successive waves of immigration, establishing their own social, economic, and political institutions.

      • British administrators, police, and military personnel.
    • Political Context:
      • 1917: British forces capture Jerusalem during World War I, ending 400 years of Ottoman rule. The Balfour Declaration states British support for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people."

      • 1922/1923: The League of Nations formally grants Britain the Mandate for Palestine, tasked with facilitating the Jewish national home while safeguarding the rights of existing non-Jewish communities.

      • Rising tensions and violent conflict between the Arab and Jewish communities over land, immigration, and political aspirations (e.g., 1921 Jaffa riots, 1929 Palestine riots and Hebron massacre, 1936-1939 Arab Revolt).

      • The Holocaust in Europe (1939-1945) intensified Jewish aspirations for statehood.

      • 1947: The United Nations proposes a Partition Plan (Resolution 181) to divide Palestine into separate Arab and Jewish states, with Jerusalem under international administration. Jewish leadership accepted the plan; Arab leadership rejected it.
    XII. State of Israel and Palestinian Territories (1948 – Present)

    • Inhabitants:
      • Israel (within 1949 Armistice Lines): Jewish majority (including immigrants from around the world and their descendants), Arab minority (citizens of Israel – primarily Muslim, also Christian, Druze, and Bedouin).

      • West Bank and Gaza Strip: Overwhelmingly Palestinian Arab population (Muslim majority, Christian minority). Jewish Israeli settlers in the West Bank and (until 2005) Gaza.
    • Political Context:
      • May 14, 1948: David Ben-Gurion declares the establishment of the State of Israel.

      • 1948 Arab-Israeli War (Israeli War of Independence / Palestinian Nakba - "Catastrophe"): Surrounding Arab states invaded. Israel won, expanding its territory. Around 700,000-750,000 Palestinian Arabs became refugees. Jordan annexed the West Bank and East Jerusalem; Egypt controlled the Gaza Strip.

      • Subsequent Wars and Conflicts: Including 1956 Suez Crisis, 1967 Six-Day War (Israel occupies West Bank, East Jerusalem, Gaza, Sinai, Golan Heights), 1973 Yom Kippur War.

      • Palestinian National Movement: Rise of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).

      • First Intifada (1987-1993): Palestinian uprising in occupied territories.

      • Oslo Accords (1990s): Mutual recognition between Israel and PLO; establishment of the Palestinian Authority (PA) with limited autonomy.

      • Second Intifada (2000-2005).

      • 2005: Israel unilaterally disengages from Gaza.

      • 2007-Present: Hamas takes control of Gaza, leading to an Israeli-Egyptian blockade and several major conflicts.

      • Continued Israeli settlement in the West Bank, ongoing conflict, and a stalled peace process define the current era.
    This timeline illustrates the continuous presence of diverse groups and the complex layers of history that have shaped the inhabitants and political landscape of this region.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2025 at 10:53 PM