Long-short market neutral ETFs

Discussion in 'ETFs' started by Kust, Jan 4, 2021.

  1. Kust

    Kust

    Why all the long-shot market neutral ETFs perform so poorly? Having a long-short portfolio that neutralizes market risk seems to be a good idea. So why all the long shot market neutral ETFs perform so poorly?

    Generating enough trading ideas is a full time job. I would rather invest in some good long-short ETF, but I have not found anything good yet. And it seems strange.
     
  2. At least some of the long-short funds use value-based criteria to determine potential stocks to buy or short. The reality is that some of the most "overvalued" stocks tend to keep going up while some of the most "undervalued" stocks tend to keep going down. Further, most long-only professional money managers can't outperform their benchmarks so now you have a portfolio manager trying to short as well. It usually doesn't go well.
     
    KCalhoun, murray t turtle and fan27 like this.
  3. El Trado

    El Trado

    Long stock is 100
    Short stock is 100

    The market drop 10 %

    Long stock is 90
    Short stock is 110

    The market increase by 10 %

    Long stock is 99
    Short stock is 99

    Voila, you have lost 2 just while the market being back to where it started.

    Then multiply this by a lot of volatility up and down and you have your answer......
     
    Oktay and murray t turtle like this.
  4. %%
    Exactly.............................................................................
    And the inverse etfs tend to do really badly;
    unless /until you have a day like today.I got out of spxs with a better profit+ worse slippage than i though today .
    Slippage tends to be much worse in inverse ETFs\ but profit targets can party fix that.
    CLIX= long online short bricks + mortar had a huge run last year, but more erratic than a 3 times long ETF, but less eratic than inverse ETFs.:caution::caution::caution::caution::caution::caution::caution:
     
    KCalhoun likes this.
  5. jbusse

    jbusse

    No reason for a "market neutral" fund to remain 22% net short after the market dropped. If you re-balance to market neutral after the market drop, you'd be break even after the market increase.
     
    Kust likes this.
  6. KCalhoun

    KCalhoun

    Inverses are like nightclub ladies..... beautiful on days like today but risky. UVXY my favorite
     
    murray t turtle likes this.
  7. Kust

    Kust

    Please do not flood and discuss inverse ETFs here. My question is about long-short presumably market neutral ETFs.
     
  8. DaveV

    DaveV

    Actually the market is not back where it started. It is down 1%
    But I get your point, and it is well made.
    BTW, the same math explains why 2x and 3x ETFs constantly trail their respective index.
     
  9. ph1l

    ph1l

    High expense ratios could be part of the answer.
    https://etfdb.com/screener/#page=1&...es=Long/Short&ytd_ff_start=NaN&ytd_ff_end=NaN
    upload_2021-1-4_20-19-48.png
     
    Kust likes this.
  10. jbusse

    jbusse

    The main reason is shorting has become incredibly difficult since the end of the financial crisis, probably because of the Fed's influence on the market.
     
    #10     Jan 4, 2021