Futures Fills

Discussion in 'Order Execution' started by elguapo, Dec 9, 2024.

  1. elguapo

    elguapo

    I've noticed that I actually get fills on the best bid/offer in the futures market w/out the market moving/printing the next price through you. This is something that used to happen in equities, and basically never happens now unless you are posting to a market center that charges you instead of paying you for providing liquidity.

    My guess is that if somebody is constantly reloading the bid in futures, they are just constantly losing position in the queue, so its actually possible to get the fill without pricing printing through you/or you becoming the offer.

    In equities, this is almost never going to happen for a variety of reasons. The only way you can post a bid without becoming the offer is if you do things like post dark/mid, but thats not really the same as posting the nbbo.

    Has anybody else noticed this in futures? that its actually possible to get filled on the best bid/offer without going offside? { I'm actually thinking that I am going offside, but its not something I would even be able to perceive/happening too quickly, aka the nano second it take for whoever is reloading, i probably became the offer, but its not something i can perceive }
     
  2. Robert Morse

    Robert Morse Sponsor

    This is the benefit of a single transparent orderbook versus fragmentation in the equity market.
     
  3. Coin Flip

    Coin Flip

    Which futures are you referring to?

    Happens to me all the time in thinner markets like NQ and YM.

    I think the main cause is you have market orders probing around. If you look at Time and Sales, a lot of the executed transactions are for only 1 or 2 contracts, so the offer will be hit, but the entire size on the offer won't be taken out.
     
  4. Coin Flip

    Coin Flip

    By the way, welcome to the futures market. I will enjoy competing against you as well as the Goldman Sachs algos.
     
  5. elguapo

    elguapo

    This happens to me on ES, typically when the market is trading 500 or more contracts in a 5 second candle, like near options expiring.
     
  6. mervyn

    mervyn

    80% of the ticks are algo.