Dispersion Trade (and cboe indexes)

Discussion in 'Options' started by Real Money, May 2, 2025 at 8:52 AM.

  1. Real Money

    Real Money

    So, I've been looking into a few things related to vol markets.
    disp.png
    (Michael Kramer - Mott Capital Management)

    This guy is talking about the long/short vol trade MAG7/SPX (either via straddles or cross asset put/call). It's being put on quarterly, and it got put on right before tech earnings (okay kinda makes sense). He says "it will come off next week" and then suggests bearish action in the names as a result of that. The implied correlation jumps as the trade is put on, and drops off as the vols 'de-correlate'.

    I didn't realize how important some of this sh1t is.

    The thing I'm asking about is the related stuff like SPOTVOL/VIX, and spot-vol beta. As for SPOTVOL,
    What are the differences (however insignificant) between VIX, VIX futures, model volatility, and SPOTVOL. How does it compare to raw model vol calculations/correlates when used for index-vol correlation trading?

    Got any clever suggestions for index-vol correlation informed trading? Any other Cboe indexes I should be watching?
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2025 at 9:06 AM
  2. MarkBrown

    MarkBrown

    Understanding the distinctions between VIX, VIX futures, model volatility, and SPOTVOL is crucial for traders and investors navigating volatility markets. Here's a comprehensive breakdown:

    VIX (CBOE Volatility Index)
    • Definition: The VIX measures the market's expectation of 30-day forward-looking volatility, derived from S&P 500 index options.Kellogg Insight+6Investopedia+6Morningstar+6

    • Characteristics:
      • Reflects implied volatility, not actual or realized volatility.

      • Often termed the "fear index" due to its tendency to spike during market downturns.

      • Not directly investable; serves as a benchmark for volatility expectations.MorningstarInvestopedia+1Investopedia+1
    VIX Futures
    • Definition: Futures contracts based on the expected future values of the VIX index.

    • Characteristics:
    Model Volatility
    • Definition: Volatility estimates derived from mathematical models, such as GARCH or stochastic volatility models.European Central Bank

    • Characteristics:
      • Based on historical price data and statistical assumptions.

      • Used for risk management, derivative pricing, and forecasting.

      • May differ from implied volatility measures like the VIX, especially during market stress.Financial Times+2Investopedia+2YouTube+2
    SPOTVOL
    • Definition: An index measuring the immediate, or "spot," volatility of the S&P 500, focusing on current market fluctuations.Kellogg Insight

    • Characteristics:
      • Designed to capture day-to-day volatility, distinct from long-term expectations.

      • Provides a more granular view of current market conditions compared to the VIX.

      • Useful for traders interested in short-term volatility dynamics.
    Comparison & Correlation in Index-Volatility Trading
    • VIX vs. VIX Futures:
      • VIX reflects current market expectations; futures represent anticipated future volatility.

      • Futures prices can diverge from the VIX due to market factors, leading to basis risk.Morningstar+2Cboe+2Investopedia+2Topstep
    • Model Volatility vs. Implied Measures:
      • Model volatility relies on historical data; implied measures like the VIX incorporate market sentiment.

      • Discrepancies between the two can signal trading opportunities or mispricings.
    • SPOTVOL's Role:

      • Offers a real-time snapshot of market volatility, complementing the forward-looking VIX.

      • Can be instrumental in strategies focusing on immediate market movements.
    VIA CHAT GPT
     
    birdman and Real Money like this.
  3. If there is a big trade in mag7/spx (to move SPX it would have to be pretty big right?), I've not heard about it. Usually, dispersion people trade top50 since that actually mostly replicates the index. Dispersion people have been quite active given that correlation is back at attractive levels, at least relative to the recent past

    You can see implied correlation (more applicable to var swap dispersion, based on how the index is constructed) using COR1M, COR3M etc indices
     
    nbbo, newwurldmn and Real Money like this.
  4. Here is what i posted last summer year ago (Dispersion trade "idea" thread):

    "Instead of opening position every month, make only one trade per qtr on monthly expiration with a lot of reporting, like AUG is now"
     
    Real Money likes this.
  5. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    stop being helpful. its unbecoming.

    Implied corr is trading at 30 and that's considered attractive?
     
  6. Just six months ago it was in single digits
     
    newwurldmn likes this.
  7. NEVER listen to that MOTT guy

    he is always always always WRONG

    you can check his youtube channel. More of a bear than Harry Dent + Peter Schiff

    did I say always?
     
    Real Money likes this.
  8. I think you're over analyzing trading linearly, too left brained. Trading is not a science or math problem.

    Trading is a gentle storm comprised of data, emotions, deviations, ranges, points, variables and some art in a timeframe, picture frame box.

    Realize this wisdom, and you'll be be one stepping stone closer to being in sync with market riches
    Money of Real
     
    yg10 and TrAndy2022 like this.