Hello all. Im fairly new to trading but ran into an interesting problem today im hoping somebody can help me with. Lets use the stock symbol PWRD as example: Nasdaq.com has total institutional holders at 83, with no insider trading activity at all. http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/pwrd/institutional-holdings/activity Reuters.com lists 85 holders, with no insider trading either http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/insiderTrading?symbol=PWRD.O CNBC.com lists 86 holders, and has a log of insider trading, most recently showing a sale on 9/26/2012 http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/PWRD/tab/8.2 Edgar Online SEC reports show no filings whatsoever for form 4, insider trading http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-e...exclude&Find=Find+Companies&action=getcompany CNBC seems to be the most accurate, as it is a fact that Fosun (largest holder) owns nearly %10 of PWRD, and CNBC is the only one even listing Fosun as a holder. But where is CNBC pulling these insider trades from if not SEC filings? I'm not even going to mention yahoo, i could see their data is inaccurate from the start. I thought i could trust nasdaq.com though, so another question is: Who can i trust for accurate information? it seems finding out the answer to a simple question like how much of a company is owned by insiders, you get 5 different answers on 5 different websites.
shogu: Welcome to trading and this place. Your question is quite well-put; it will be interesting to see if there will be an informed answer.
After further digging i've found out the insider sales listed on CNBC are from Form 144's, it technically isn't a sale just a proposal of a sale in the future. im not sure where these are being posted since they arent at EDGAR Online either. Supposedly a Form 4 (actual sale) should still be filed when the transaction takes place, however in reviewing annual SEC holdings for Perfect Human Holding Co (owned by PWRD's CEO), i can see that every year from 2007 until 2012, his shares have decreased. Yet there is not one Form 4 on file for him, only the Form 144's he has filled out previously for proposed future sales that, apparently, have taken place at some point (at what price, i dont know) I'm still hoping for an answer myself to my other questions or some clarification on this issue as well. its tough learning sometimes with google as a mentor, theres plenty you can learn, but clearly not everything.
I dunno, man. I've also noticed that stockcharts.com and yahoo finance sometimes give different data. I mean like the highs and lows on certain days are different. I made a thread about it here: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=245000
I've been in this business +20 years...I've never seen many different sources with the same data. My point, what you see, it is the norm. Also, if a source has an error and then corrects the error at a later date...there is "no" notification that there was an error in the first place. The above applies to price data, volume info, shareholders, insider trading and on and on and on that may be needed by investors or traders. What do you do ? You make the best analysis or decision you can with the information you have access to. Simply, if something goes wrong...its still your fault.
gotta say it shocks and amazes me. after all were not talking about otcbb or pink sheet stocks, and were not talking about joe schmoes personal blog data. this is nasdaqs official website, disseminating what is supposed to be regulated public information, and 2 months after the info was made public, nasdaqs own website info on institutional holders is dead wrong, missing a holder who owns %10 of the company. if the entire point of elite exchanges like the nasdaq is to offer investors transparency so they can make informed decisions, at least about basic fundamental details we're entitled to have full access to, how is stuff like this going on without class actions? anyway, thanks for your reply. in your 20+ years of business, do you have an explanation for why the CEO of PWRD was able to reduce his holdings of the company by %25 without ever filing a form 4 with the SEC? I see he filed multiple 144s, where can an investor find 144's as they are published since so many websites dont even report them? also, what website would you use were you to be in need of looking up some basic simple fundamentals?
These websites have "disclaimers" and you should read it very carefully. Basically, anything reported in error, they aren't liable. As to lawsuits, I'm sure such is occurring but I don't think on the level of "class action" except during the dot.com days when there were "class action" lawsuits on any company that tanked in the market (most of them)...most folks believed they weren't given accurate information that could have prevented them from holding on to loser stocks when the market killed over. Most of the lawsuits got thrown out. Most of the same folks weren't complaining when the markets were going up for ridiculous reasons. As for PWRD...I've never heard of the company and I'm sure the company must have an "investor relations" contact page for you to contact someone and ask those questions. Last of all, I recommend you use several different sources and then compare the information so that you can make the best decision instead of putting all your eggs in one basket based upon one website only. Yet, the SEC itself is a great place to start @ http://www.sec.gov
the car parking garages in new york city have "Disclaimers" listed that say if there is any theft or damage to your car, they are not liable. of course its a lie, and they are legally liable. they just put up those signs to discourage action. no matter what their disclaimers say, id think an investor had a leg to stand on in saying he was provided false information before investing, regardless of the direction the market goes. of course, i bet nasdaq has better government relations than the car parking garages in new york city, so theyll get away with alot more =)
I view Data Vendors like http://www.nasdaq.com website or any other website use of disclaimers as simple this...they are stating for fact that there will sometimes be inaccurate information and that we can't do anything about the inaccuracy unless we have proof that Nasdaq or any other website willfully posted the inaccurate information. Regardless, I'm not lawyer and you will need to remember the information on their website is there only for as stated at their website... informational and educational purposes only, and nothing contained herein should be construed as investment advice, either on behalf of a particular security or an overall investment strategy. @ http://www.nasdaq.com/about/terms.aspx That's the life of being an investor or trader. We use their information and if we make a lot of money via inaccurate information...we don't complain and think we're smart. If we struggle or lose money...it's not fair and its someone's else fault (not our fault). I suspect that's why such types of lawsuits were thrown out of court after the dot.com collapses except for those where a company intentionally (willfully) wanted to deceive. Get use to the fact that data vendors (e.g. Nasdaq) aren't perfect.
what website would you use were you to be in need of looking up some basic simple fundamentals? ----------------------- Accountants have been asking this question for years. For cripes sake an accountant can't even get a straight answer from the company.