cash-and-carry on the bitcoin consumes to much margin

Discussion in 'Interactive Brokers' started by adieucourtier, Apr 5, 2024.

  1. Hi there,

    As a non-US customer, i cannot purchase bitcoin via Paxos, so i have to purchase UCITS spot bitcoin ETF instead.

    Here is the trade :
    leg 1 - LONG spot bitcoin ETFs worth $6500
    leg 2 - SHORT 1x micro bitcoin future contract worth $6500

    maintenance margin increase + $9750 !

    I asked the IBKR support why so much margin is required for a delta neutral trade : "we cannot offset the risk for the bitcoin underlying" they said.

    Could you find another way to place the trade, if possible with leverage ? As a european resident, i do not have access to crypto exchanges trading futures such as Binance for instance. I think the +1.2% per month is a nice trade to be taken though...

    Thanks !
     
    Zodiac4u and murray t turtle like this.
  2. %%
    NO ,but i know how to take a hint ''we can't off set the risk ''.
    I dont park as close to rail road crossing, as when i was younger \
    past 10 years/I saw a rail car fly off the tracks, much further than I figured. To much risk for too little reward.
    You're welcome:caution::caution:
     
    Picaso likes this.
  3. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    I bet this is one of the reasons the cash and carry opportunity is so wide. The margin required is insane.
     
  4. ajacobson

    ajacobson

    The c n c market in locals you can accomplish it in is both a margin-reducing play and a rate of return play. The OP is in an environment where he says he has to simulate c n c and that places him at a fair disadvantage. Much like a European option box, the marketplace provides a mechanism to bang it back into line. You can do it in the US where you have a marketplace that trades the cash and the future in one spot. Ironically, you can also do it in the Gulf, but I suspect they're farming it out so it's a tad worse.
    Regulatory arbitrage at its worst.
    You'll be able to do it at the CBOE shortly if they ever get success in their planned physically settled future.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2024
  5. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    or if spot ETF have listed options on them


     
  6. ajacobson

    ajacobson

    Probably the best way for retail as you won't get cross-margining in most markets.
     
  7. i guess the long leg could be replaced by deep-in-the-money CALL options on $GBTC or $IBIT. Dont know when the release date for those products is scheduled though...

    A physically settled crypto future would be a nice instrument to allow the broker to "net" the long and short position margins...