broker to box chain options on CME ES futures

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by hagen, Feb 6, 2024.

  1. hagen

    hagen

    Hello,

    I am looking for a broker to chain options on CME ES futures, other than IBKR?

    I would like it to be possible to make 4 legs, to make box options.
    And that the platform was free and if it is in a mobile environment, the better.

    Any suggestion?

    Thanks,
     
  2. Robert Morse

    Robert Morse Sponsor

    What is the benefit of a box spread in an option on a future? CME Direct which very few brokers offer allows any spreads, even outside User Defined Spreads (UDS).
     
  3. hagen

    hagen

    interest rates
     
  4. Robert Morse

    Robert Morse Sponsor

    You expect to be paid interest on the credit balances in a futures account from options? Does IB do that? I did not think an FCM can repo those balances. I could be wrong.
     
  5. hagen

    hagen

    If you lent money with the box option, the premium implicit in the box option contains the interest rate that may be higher than the official one. They are arbitration options
     
  6. Robert Morse

    Robert Morse Sponsor

    I understand how this works with equity options and index options, but I did not think it would work with a futures account. A BOX spread is an UDS but I would not find them on CQG. CME Direct has RFQ so you can send whatever you want.

     
  7. CannonTrading_Ilan

    CannonTrading_Ilan Sponsor

    Can you give a very specific example of a hypothetical trade?
     
  8. jeb9999

    jeb9999

    Why on earth do you want to do this? This is like inventing a square wheel.

    All the S&P 500 index products are arbed against each other.

    Just do SPX or SPY option boxes.
     
  9. hagen

    hagen

    https://alphaarchitect.com/2023/05/box-spreads-an-alternative-to-treasury-bills/


    Everyone knows their trades, I only comment that you can also carry out operations with futures and options, in addition to the excess you can have a return on the T-Bill and even greater if you take advantage of the inefficiencies of the markets.

    Ilan attached the operations to you.

    buy 1 ES FOP Apr30´24 4500 put
    sell 1 ES FOP Apr30´24 4500 call
    buy 1 ES FOP Apr30´24 5200 call
    sell 1 ES FOP Apr30´24 5200 put

    Many thanks
     
    CannonTrading_Ilan likes this.
  10. Robert Morse

    Robert Morse Sponsor

    This is my 2 cents from what I know about Futures accounts. When you buy or sell a future, cash does not leave the account like when you do that with stocks. If your account has $100,000, and you want to buy a T-bill for $90,000 to get interest you can. You want to avoid your equity dropping to owe interest, so doing this with 100% makes no sense. If you go out and buy futures with a margin requirement of, say $80,000, you are not borrowing money. However, Options must be paid for. If you buy $80,000 in options, $80,000 leaves your account. By selling the BOX as described, it will offset the debit from the options. It will not remove the margin requirements of the options. Because of that, I see no benefit to doing this. I only see you incurring fees. I do see the benefit to funding with T-bills if you do not buy options and only trade futures.

     
    #10     Feb 7, 2024
    CannonTrading_Ilan likes this.