390 Professional Orders Rule ("390 Rule") --- some questions

Discussion in 'Order Execution' started by elite1974, Jan 14, 2025.

  1. elite1974

    elite1974

    With regards to the 390 professional orders rule that says that if you have an average of 390 options orders per day for a month - something bad happens to you.

    questions

    1) do expiring options count as separate orders? because I see they generate a new order number when they expire

    2) has anyone had this happen to them, and what were the consequences?
    a) how much were the increased data fees
    b) how was the order routing changed
    c) what other actions changed

    https://support.tastytrade.com/support/s/solutions/articles/43000435379
     
  2. Robert Morse

    Robert Morse Sponsor

    I'll speak in general terms. We count the number of orders sent. An expiring option is not generated from an order. For us, you lose access to a SMART route which avoids most option exchange maker/taker fees. There is not only a fee difference, but you also lose customer priority on the book. You are going to want to avoid this as the change is for an entire quarter. You will need to ask your broker for their pass-through costs. For a number of very active customers, I monitor their option order counts and give them a weekly report.

     
  3. Robert Morse

    Robert Morse Sponsor

    BTW, your broker says on your link ".....currently does not support professional traders that fall under the "390 Rule." Lightspeed does also support those customers.
     
  4. elite1974

    elite1974

    That is not my broker, I just used that link so people who didn't know what the 390 rule was could read about it.

    it is the first one listed on the google search
     
  5. Robert Morse

    Robert Morse Sponsor

    See RG16-064 attached. A better reference.
     
    elite1974 likes this.
  6. FSU

    FSU

    I have had this happen to me and it's not good.
    Your orders would be tagged "pro customer" which means,

    You will pay increased exchange fees. For example, the CBOE charges no exchange fees in equity options for a retail customer. When your order has this designation, you will pay an extra .75 per contract for a non penny stock.

    You will lose customer priority.

    For me, the biggest negative is MM's would not want to trade with me, as they could see this tag on the order. This may not matter much in a very liquid stock such as SPY, but when I enter orders or spreads in less liquid stocks, they would go unfilled. Other traders would enter a spread at a worse price and would be filled instantly as a retail customer, but not me.

    Some brokers will not allow you to trade with this designation (your orders are not as valuable with this tag in their payment for order flow model)

    On the plus side, you could potentially be on both sides of a market at the same time (if your broker allows it)
     
    qwerty11, elite1974 and newwurldmn like this.
  7. Good Morning Robert Morse,

    Can you see the winning options traders who make a lot of money since you are the broker and you can see trader trades?
     
  8. Robert Morse

    Robert Morse Sponsor

    I do not review my customer's orders unless there is an issue. I do not look at their positions live unless there is a risk/margin issue. Why do you ask?

     
    SimpleMeLike likes this.
  9. Good Morning elite1974,

    Is the 390 referring to more than 390 individual trades per day?

    Thank you,
     
  10. Hello Robert,

    If you knew the traders that making a lot of money and you have access to their trading data, why you can not take the same trades they take and make yourself a lot of money like the winning trader?

    You are the broker, why you do not just take the same trades as the traders that make money every month?
     
    #10     Jan 15, 2025