0DTE options craze

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Jdesey, Sep 29, 2023.

  1. Jdesey

    Jdesey

    Just google anything about zero days to expiration options and you’ll see it’s a real big thing right now. The volume has grown dramatically, but is this just gambling?

    I have tried my share of 0DTE recently and basically I’ve broken even. To me it just feels like gambling. you have extreme time decay as you are trading the same day as an option expires. I’ve had many of these expire at zero, they move very very fast.

    is this a serious strategy with the zero DTE options or is this just folks trying to take a little bit of money and make a bunch?
     
    nitrene and kalapur73 like this.
  2. I'm successful so far (2 months in) with a trade based on this 0DTE IC:
    https://portal.deltaray.io/backtests/cf0c9ff6-ae03-4928-ae8f-2003181b8704

    Some days it feels a little bit like horse-racing and I'm somewhat concerned about the
    negative periods, which will come for sure. My plan is that if I encounter three
    consecutive losses I will move it to paper trading and wait until it fixes itself.
    Or throw it out completely :)
     
  3. nitrene

    nitrene

    Its definitely gambling but even in gambling there are some that are better than others. I first heard about the ODTE trades on r/WSB back in 2021. It is the quickest way to YOLO yourself to massive losses. Then you can post your loss porn on r/WSB.
     
  4. bln

    bln

    Research have shown that 70-80% of the trades is institutional of various kind and done by professionals working in finance.

    Under capitalized retail traders looking for leverage? that is nothing new, have been a theme for 30 years.
     
    SunTrader likes this.
  5. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    everything is gambling when you don’t know what you are doing. And even when you do know, there’s still randomness.
     
  6. ktm

    ktm

    For many it is absolutely gambling. For others 0DTE is simply another tool available to manage profitable strategies in a more granular way.
     
  7. SunTrader

    SunTrader

    Anything after all is a gamble by definition, if the outcome is uncertain.
     
  8. maxinger

    maxinger


    If you just spend a few minutes a day trading ODTE, then that is gambling.


    If you sweat blood by spending
    > 12 hours a day practising / trading ODTE (for many many years),
    then that is not gambling.
     
  9. M.W.

    M.W.

    The definition is not premised on the outcome, many things in life are completely uncertain yet don't constitute gambling. It depends on how you arrive at decision making about uncertain outcomes. If the underlying rational of a decion is based on a logically sound approach other than hope, prayer and wishful thinking then that would preclude gambling.

     
    Statistical Trader likes this.
  10. destriero

    destriero

    RTN-vega on longer dated stuff is difficult as you're naturally short excess fronts over backs; you're compensated by the switch edge (D1/D2) but again, you're net short a shtload of contracts.

    0DTE is great bc you can get long in 1-3 day index against short vol in backs and you can easily expense the -edge in the switch to get neutral $-gamma or net long.

    I am always a buyer of 0DTE in index and short 0DTE on single names on Thursday close/Friday morning.


    (Switch) = vol edge x tenor
    (RTN) = root time neutral Vega
     
    #10     Sep 30, 2023