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Would Obama have the audacity to apply his logic to a professional athlete?

  1. Would Obama have the audacity to apply his logic to a professional athlete?

    I wonder if Obama would have the nerve to walk up to someone like Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, or Michael Phelps, and say....

    "They think they are there because they work hard, i know lots of people who work hard.......or, "they didnt do that, someone else did that for them"......"

    Although i doubt Obama knows anyone who has ever worked hard, I wonder if he really believes that guys like Tiger Woods, or Michael Jordan, or Michael Phelps got to where they were from luck of the draw.......

    The fact of the matter is that professional athletes are in better shape then 99.99% of the population, and yes that, and their athletic ability is a direct result of them working their ass off, and working harder then everyone else......

    And no, somebody else didnt do that for them......

    Whats the difference between the way a professional athlete gets to the top of their sport, and the way a businessman gets to the top of the business chain? Both are based on hard work, and 95% of their success is based on what they do for themselves.

    So do any of us actually believe Obama would have the nerve to say that to a professional athlete? Yet he feels just fine demonising business people with that shitty speech...... I think it is very telling.....
     
  2. Max E.: Rebel without a clue.
     
  3. I can see that there is already a response to my thread which I am unable to see, that can only mean one thing since i only know of 1 creature who is so reprehensible that i had to place him on my ignore list.

    I really feel sorry for Brass, his life must be incredibly sad given the fact that he is a 60 year old man who derives satisfaction from trolling the internet and following me around when i have him on ignore, just so he can deliver what i can only assume is yet another shitty 1 liner......
     
  4. 60?! Looks like I'm aging in dog years. And, yes, I can see how you fastidiously ignore me, by only casually mentioning me time and again, whether I actually comment on one of your brain farts or not.
     
  5. Yep, I can't see it either, so that's a fair bet.
     
  6. Don't worry boys, Brass never has anything to say other than personal jabs that mimic his political hero, Jon Stewart.

    It's how the faux intellectuals roll in in the world of make believe.
     
  7. Lmao, Tiger Woods is your first example (of a self-made man)!?
     
  8. i actually thought that this could be a decent thread topic and that someone might feel like talking about this, but now this thread is already derailed..... He really is the true definition of an asshole....
     
  9. of a guy who worked harder than 99.9999% of other people out there, and thus deserves credit for 99% of his own success, yes tiger woods is a good example of that...... Feel free to explain to me why Tiger woods does not deserve credit for 99% of his success.....
     
  10. Just curious, but who do you think is responsible for Tiger Woods' success?
     
  11. Tiger Woods is a creation of his father. That's not to say he couldn't have quit practicing golf, but by the time he was old enough to reason about such things he'd already been golfing for years!
     
  12. So that somehow changes the fact that he was willing to work twice as hard as everyone else on tour to get to where he was?

    There are a lot of children whose parents push them when they are young who dont amount to shit, because they arent willing to do what Tiger was....

    Tiger basically revolutionized golf, look at the body type of most pro golfers who are older than Tiger woods, and then the average body type of the pro golfers younger than tiger woods

    Weight training was non existent in Golf before Tiger, now days you look at Golfers and you dont see guys like John Daly making it big anymore, because they all know they have to put in the extra time at the gym, just to gain that 1-2 extra strokes over a 4 day tournament, so that they can win on todays PGA tour..... Tiger elevated everyones play because he was willing to do that, and he got to the top of the sport because he was willing to put in the extra time both at the gym and on the course....

    So when Obama dismisses that, and plays it off as if its luck and says "I know lots of people who work hard" he is full of shit, no one on the PGA tour works as hard as he does...
     
  13. Too funny

    Romney To Olympians: ‘You Didn’t Get Here Solely On Your Own’

    ROMNEY: You Olympians, however, know you didn’t get here solely on your own power. For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We’ve already cheered the Olympians, let’s also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities.

    Just as Obama said if you read it all.
     

  14. LOL !!!
     
  15. LOL, yeah because saying you should thank your parents for supporting you is almost the same as implying that people dont become successful based on hard work or intelligence, but because of the government......

    Id imagine this Statement from Romney will get more coverage than Obamas initial statement.......The left wing media is a joke....

     
  16. The parents helped, the infrastructure helped. Are we done yet?

    Re the "left wing" media, maybe the Koch brothers should be buying it.
     
  17. Nice dodge, anything but admit that righties took PBO comments out of context in a desperate attempt to win some percentage points in a losing race.
     
  18. Unfortunately, Ricter is almost as bad.

    Seriously, trying to argue against Tiger Woods or MJ's success as a case of hard work and determination is obscene.

    But what do you expect from these lefties. Do any of you guys think these guys ever played competitive sports?
     
  19. Now an assumption that those who are not conservative never played sports? And I guess righties never went to college at all, as per Santorum, a good thing I guess. Debate gone.
     
  20. Ok Mr(insert handle here), why dont you show me exactly how the wonderful government played a prominent role in Tigers Golfing Success?
     

  21. Yeah and that was only stage 1 of the lunacy, now i want to know how the government played a prominent supportive role in the careers of these guys......
     
  22. The lunacy is denying that Tiger was damn near suckled on a five-iron. Not to mention the lunacy of not seeing the analogy of supportive parents to supportive infrastructure.
     
  23. Sorry, I don't see it either. "Supportive parents" = "Supportive infrastructure"? That's batshit crazy, Ricter.

    That's a private vs public argument...
     
  24. One is a parent the other one is the government.... a parents role SHOULD BE TO SUPPORT THEIR KIDS..... this is not the governments role.....

    Saying that the role of the government is to supposedly raise a child, just like a parent would raise their own child is downright scary, and quite frankly its people who believe the government are capable of fulfilling this role that are helping to create poverty....
     
  25. Wasn't really getting into the pre-supposed government involvement, but I do think his father was a beneficiary of some gov't help along the way, and he, his father, was a predominant source of Tiger's success. Much like the Williams sisters in tennis. Don't you think?
     
  26. Tigers Dad was a Military man, he risked his life to go fight in a pointless war for a shitty wage...... He doesnt owe a thing to the government.....

    If you really want to go the route of "who cut the cheque" then it inevitably leads back to the private sector, and the "Rich" who financed the war with their taxes, the government didnt pay for shit, all they did was rob Peter to pay Paul, and on top of that they fucked up alot of lives in the process.......
     
  27. It's an analogy, so there is no "just like" to it. You are trying too hard.
     
  28. Would Tiger have made it to the level he's at if he were born to a poor family in a poor neighborhood without unlimited access to a golf course?

    Tiger got lucky in many many ways. The right father (and family income level) at the right time in history. He got scholarships and advantages as a result of his promise at an early age.

    To argue that any pro-athlete "did it alone" is just plain stupid. Its a combo if 10000 hours of practice, parents with enough time and money, and, being in the right place at the right time. Heck, there is even a very strong correlation between what month one is born in and whether or not they make to pro-sports.
     
  29. Do you really think that the guys who were willing to dedicate that much time to perfection would have ended up flipping burgers if it wasnt for pro sports???

    Quite frankly the comment where Obama said "someone else did that for you" was less damning in my opinion then when Obama said that people who succeed think

    "it must be because im so smart, or because i work hard" and Obama said he knows lots of people who are smart who work hard, he was implying that people like Tiger arent infact special, and that they dont infact work harder, that they just got lucky to be in the right place at the right time......

    Do you really think that someone with the drive of Tiger Woods, or Michael Jordan would be flipping burgers if they didnt make it into pro sports? The fact of the matter is that the reason they are successful is SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE they were smarter, and they worked harder, its not a goddamn fluke, and it had nothing to do with the government.....

    The People Obama was trying to appeal to dont work as hard as these guys. Period, end of story. There is no one living in Poverty who dedicates as much time as these guys do to their "job"
     
  30. He was born to a relatively poor family. His dad wasn't exactly "rolling in it". He played golf at the local muni and much of the help along the way came about because the kid was so damn good at such a young age that teaching pro's, coaches etc were lining up to hitch a ride.

    He was awarded a golf scholarship to a private university...
     
  31. True, but the version of 80/20 rule applies here too - determination and hard work make up for 80% of their success. Raw talent and (in large part) luck is what makes them the champions. Oh, and don't forget about steroids, of course!
     
  32. im certainly no barack hussein obama fan (do we really have a president named hussein :p) but it sounded like he was talking about the roads and bridges as far as the building part of the quote.

    "somebody invested in roads and bridges, if you got a business, you didn't build that"

    thats the exact quote, i could be wrong.
     
  33. You are absolutely correct. Talent is an enormous advantage and it's usually what makes all the hard work worth it.

    Granted, comparing MJ to Tiger isn't even the best analogy. At their respective peaks, it makes sense, but their path's to greatness were quite different...considering that MJ didn't even emerge as a college prospect until sometime in his junior year of high school.

    Tiger, OTOH, played in his first PGA Tour event in his junior year of high school and was cleaning up on the junior circuit.
     
  34. So if Tiger was born 15 years earlier in history; he would've made it into pro-golf?

    Not picking a fight here, just asking you what you think about this given pro-golf's history.
     
  35. You are correct, thank you for being honest. Obama's error there was that of the "dangling modifier". Composition 101 error.
     
  36. Well, relatively poor is one thing. Being born in a ghetto is another. I would place Tiger's upbringing as stable (his dad was together and *there* to guide him), secure and middle class.

    There are probably quite a few potential "Tigers" out there.... but, we'll never get to see them reach that potential as a result of poverty, poor family values and a lack of community.

    Personally, Tiger is inspirational in many ways to me; his work ethic is world class as is his emotional temperment. My point here is not to take away from Tiger's accomplishments; but to shine some light on the impact environment has on the individual. Its a significant impact in my opinion, much more so than people would care to admit.
     
  37. Lee Elder, Jim Dent, Calvin Peete were PGA Tour Pro's and black. They were all around 15 years prior to Tiger Woods turning pro.
     
  38. Please expand on this. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
     
  39. Your comment about "15 years prior" would Tiger Woods have made it? I'm not sure what was intended, but from the look of it, I assumed you were commenting on his race and the obstacles towards playing professional golf in a tradtionally white sport.

    I wanted to make clear that there were several prominent and successful black golfers in the 1960's,70's, 80's...but maybe you weren't implying that after all.
     
  40. He's providing examples of black golfers who made it without beginning in favorable circumstances. This is an attempt to weaken the argument that environment is important (which of course goes back to Obama's statement re infrastructure). Here is where you get to trot out statistics, which is a beautiful moment since he loves using statistics to demonize blacks in the first place.
     
  41. Ok, I think we can discuss this qualitatively. For the sake of discussion, let's assume some things about the act of playing golf; as Ricter menitoned, there are plenty of statistics, but lets just go with some common sense assessments.

    1. Golf is an expensive sport. Clubs, green fees, travel etc.

    2. Courses in impoverished areas are nearly non-existent as playing is somewhat of a luxury.

    3. Even in the 90's, several courses/clubs discriminated against minorities.

    If you disagree with any of the above let's hear it, otherwise, lets take those statements at face value.

    So lets when you say "traditionally white sport"; I would add "traditionally affluent white sport". The fact is, Tiger's father was a good golfer himself. A single handicapper by many accounts. They lived in orange county; a genrally affluent area with lots of courses with year round access.

    So let's go back to some of the factors that made Tiger's rise possible:

    1. Family (father's influence).
    2. Money (enough to play lots of golf).
    3. Geography (not an urban ghetto).
    4. Time in history (ok, so the 90's weren't that discriminatory, but it existed).

    http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/18/s...tour-event-instead-of-changing-its-rules.html

    http://articles.latimes.com/1990-06-22/sports/sp-236_1_shoal-creek

    Tiger had no control over 1,2,3 and 4 above. These were purely a result of the womb he came out of and when. Can we agree on this?
     
  42. LOL
     
  43. Neener neener I can't hear you.
     
  44.  
  45. I don't think you guys want to debate this topic. I have quite a bit of knowledge about this.
     
  46. Thank you for reading and acknowledging that fact. It seem so many are too quick to just follow the latest talking point.
     

  47. LMAO. 60 y.o divided by 7 in dog years = 8.5 years old.

    Yeah, that sounds about right. :p