What annual percentage returns do the best traders make?

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by canadian_dude, Jun 10, 2002.



  1. Good point. If someone can make 100% a month, but only on a small amount of capital, then that is not really that relevant. And if you can make it on larger amounts, then why wouldn't you be compounding it?

    Let's face it, if you can only make 5% a month, but do it consistently for an umlimited number of contracts, you would be a billionaire in a few years. Thats the power of compounding.

    Obviously nobody has achieved this yet, otherwise they would be the richest person in the world, and not Bill Gates.
     
    #31     Jun 11, 2002
  2. Vecula

    Vecula

    I have 2 systems that I developed that return 10% compounding consistently every month and 11% compounding consistently every month.

    The secret is to have a large enough data set for it to be relevant. Like my 11% compounding daily based system goes all the way back to 1999 at the creation of the EUR/USD since movement b4 that was just computer generated and a 3 month or even only a year of testing a system is pointless since it takes at least a few years to really see all kinds of market conditions.

    The systems turn $1K into a million in 5 years and a billion in 10 years.

    So I'm just chilling at the hotel here every night doing night audit while waiting until my "crop" gets big enough to live off of to eat from (live off of) while still having enough seed left over to continually replant (where the trading accounts grow faster than me wiring out $2K each month on the draining).

    Recently, when my $3K became $14K in 3 months time (after breaking even for 9 months straight) me and my wife moved to Florida and tripled our living expenses overnight. It was the first time in my life paying full blown rent and I made so many "spending" mistakes, heh.

    But I had to learn soooo much about how to handle money so now after claiming Chapter 7 me and the wife are back here in Baton Rouge waiting for the $2K left to become $120K while I also put in $700 a month which is what I've calculated that we'll need for me to go back into retirement 20 to 40 months from now.

    I sold my only vehicle, my motorcycle, to who I didn't know was a drug dealer who paid cash for it since the title was under lien. Then he kills himself on it 3 days later, doh!

    So I ride a bicycle to work and live with my mother in law with the wifey. Hehe, I had no idea how much influence a spouse can have on pressuring you to mess up (she doesn't know any better) with not properly allocating funds towards the future.

    I had no idea it would take me a decade when I started doing this in 2004. I thought because of my gaming background and my awesome computer skills that it would only take a max of 3 years but I was wrong and have been wrong while learning in so many ways all along the way=)

    But Ima finally be done and living off my trading after coming from an $8 an hour job in 20 to 40 more months depending on how volatile or the eur/usd and eur/jpy decides to be in the incoming 2 to 3 years.

    It's been a journey...and I finally have all the tools I need; not just to make money; but to keep it, manage it, not blow it, and raise a family with it...
     
    #32     Oct 24, 2011
  3. we believe you.
     
    #33     Oct 27, 2011
  4. ask corswine
     
    #34     Nov 1, 2011
  5. Ansare

    Ansare

    Any definitive ideas on why this is so?
     
    #35     Feb 2, 2012

  6. inside info.

    however, it is upper limit how much they can bet.

    At 70% win rate 1:1 and you assume that will not be down net 10 losses from high point, one should increase balance 45 times with 100 trades.

    from 100k to 4.5m.

    so these guys cant do it.

    quick unscientific experimet in excel could not produce single 10 net loss in 100 attempts at 70% win rate and win/loss 1:1.

    So, sure less than 4%. If you have ability to replenish and good system should bet 10%.
     
    #36     Feb 2, 2012
  7. d08

    d08

    While equities are correlated, the opportunities to diversify are considerably better. You can also employ a wider variety of strategies (pairs, takeovers and other news).
     
    #37     Feb 2, 2012
  8. I allocate about 20-25k of margin per CL contract I trade intraday. trading 24 contracts on 110k is pretty insane, even for a less volatile contract like the NQ
     
    #38     Feb 2, 2012
  9. Since you said you trade 4x margin you can easily get rekt if you aren't sure of what you are doing and thoroughly backtest your strategy over long time.

    I more than doubled (2.4x) my account over a period of the last 35 days but its was a small account, margin I used was generally about 2-2.5x. But I take maximum calculated risks so my trading style is not suitable for everyone.

    To answer your question on the annual returns the best traders make I think there's alot of factors involved to explicitly give an answer. It depends on the person's account, the state of the market.

    Generally I think for a small account (Maybe less than 100k?), 10x or more annually is elite. Larger account (More than a million) 2 to 3x is elite, medium size account 100k-1mil somewhere in between.State of the market plays a factor too (If in trading range, bull or bear).
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
    #39     Aug 9, 2020
  10. For comparison on performance vs the market you trade in, I would say whichever market you choose to trade it, get the best performing stock of that year and compare your gains against it. If you beat even the best performing stock, you are an elite level trader. E.g best performing stock in Nasdaq in 2019 is AMD for 153% returns, if you can beat that you are elite.
     
    #40     Aug 9, 2020
    KCalhoun likes this.