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USA basketball no longer tops in the world

  1. there were few "slip ups" in the past, that perhaps could have been explained by sub par teams, not so lately, especially this year.
     
  2. The Americans shot only 59% of their free throws, and shot only 32% of their 3 point shots.

    I bet Larry Brown feels a bit vindicated...
     
  3. yep, he's probably the only guy associated with the league that isn't embarrassed today. At least amongst US born players.

    After last time they said they were gonna get guys who could shoot threes, but they must have...forgot?
     
  4. over a seven game series id bet my house on the American team...If i had to pick a sqaud most would come from the American players with the exception of some quality euro players...but make no mistake there is a reason lebron and company are getting paid millions and it isnt for their looks...peace
     
  5. We haven't fared well against any good team that plays a zone, and then if the other team shoots well to boot, we're in trouble. I think we had to come from behind the last two or three games we played. Yeah, we've got the best individ talent, but so what? It's not a one on one tournament. We're lookin at bronze at best. I would just like to know why guys like Bibby and some of the other deadeyes around the league aren't on this team. With the athleticism we have, we've got to know a zone is comin, don't we?
     
  6. NBA style basketball is a joke. These guys are much more concerned about making the highlight reels, than playing smart, fundemental team basketball.

    Greece should buy an NBA expansion franchise and dominate the league for decades. Perhaps that would knock these dregs down a beg.
     
  7. Greece could not compete in the NBA on a full time basis. Not by the NBA rules. Not over an 81 game schedule.

    Look, Miami lost the first 2 to Dallas, and won the Championship.

    Different game the NBA and international ball, I don't know why the US bothers...

     

  8. I don't know how you arrive at that conclusion. Greeks are not strong enough to go 81 games? You're officiating comments are spot-on though, considering NBA officiating is so notoriously rigged.

    I'd wager the greeks have more team-pride. The NBA has been reduced to entertainment, they showcase their stars, not their teams.

    Maybe I'm just jaded and tired of professional sports altogether, its gotten so crass and boring.

    Some interesting comments here:

    http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=12766
     
  9. Playing together for 81 games means a lot. Look at Miami, they had a very shaky beginning.

    I am just saying that if you took this USA team, had them play a regular season together as a team in the NBA, that they would be much stronger than just a bunch of guys on summer vacation.

    That teamwork and pride doesn't come over a few weeks.

     

  10. You're probably right. I'll rephrase:

    I'd like to see Greece buy an NBA expansion franchise and win the Title a few times. (Perhaps, not likely, but would be a thrill to watch.)

    The inevitable would then occur, the Greek stars would be lured away by $$$ and shoe contracts, and become entertainers also.
     
  11. I think we would have to see an expansion into Europe with about 4 to 6 teams, to justify the travel.

    The travel to Greece for one game will never fly, nor would it be fair to Greece to travel the way they would have to.

     
  12. The NBA and MTV are two of America's biggest problems. They are both ruining our nations youth.
     
  13. There is no way no how over the course of a season or a series that any team in the world would be favorite to ours ( looking back we may lose but looking forward we'd be a fav to win)..I dont care who plays better team ball or who shoots a higher percentage...again there is a reason the likes of WADE, LEBRON, MELLO get paid millions...im not saying that there isnt good teams or great players out there...but we are the best in the World bar none at least in basketball and MTV music awards.. :D
     
  14. YOu're no doubt right el cubano and ZZZ is right for once as well, but the other side of the coin is that they lost because of poor shooting and inability to defend the pick and roll. Neither of those require months of team bonding and group hugs.

    These international competitions are the basketball equivalent of standardized testing of students. The US brings up the rear there as well. Maybe a return to fundamentals in both areas would be beneficial.

    Meanwhile, this is another enormous embarrassment to the NBA. Their ultimate nightmare will be a team of all foreign born palyers winning the title. The bitter truth is the most fundamentally sound players and the hardest-nosed players are foreign. That's why they are beginning to dominate the draft.
     
  15. You mean the ghetto thugs that have been the "stars" of the NBA for the last decade aren't fundamentally sound? I thought everyone was allowed to take 4 steps after picking up their dribble when they're driving the lane?
    (And don't even get me started on the referees. They turned the league into one giant free throw shooting contest...which is funny b/c the ghetto hoodlums can't even shoot them at a respectable rate).

    I would love to see the NBA fold. Unfortunately, the side effect would be a massive increase in the nations crime rate.
     
  16. Some of what you said was true.

    Tell me, which NBA players that are Euros or International players have been the key Superstars to lead their team to an NBA Championship?

    Manu Ginobli? Tony Parker?

    These are the Superstars of the NBA?

    I can't even think of an all Euro team that would win an NBA Championship.

    Ginobli, Parker, Dirk, Paul Gasol, and some other "hard nosed" euros are going to win the title?

    What is really stupid is that America even cares about international hoops. It is not the same game, they play by different rules.

    Why not have the international champs play a 5 or 7 game series with the NBA champs according to NBA rules and refs...then let's see.



     
  17. The NBA has been a joke for years. The team that they fielded for this competition couldn't play together for a year. Not enough ball for all the ego's. Having played in the semi-pro summer league for many years I feel a bit qualified to call some of these guys out. I played as recently as three years ago. The rules of the pro game have changed for the fans enjoyment. There is no disputing this factor.

    About six years ago we challenged some of the then pro players in the summer league under the "Old School" rules. They quit in the third quarter. They were victims of double dribble calls, steps for break away dunks, and three second calls just murdered them. Carrying the ball was just a routine call for the refs.

    Offensive fouls started occurring for using arm blocks to hold the "old school players" away from ripping the mediocre dribbling that started to happen when they weren't allowed to carry the ball. And they just couldn't handle pick and roll plays consistently. Long story short, old school won hands down.

    Without a doubt though, they led the stats in dunks and spectacular play moments. But when they quit they were also trailing by 17 points. I say they left the court for ego and pride moreso than anything else. And in all fairness, it took me three weeks and several Ben Gay treatments to recover. :)
     
  18. Bottom line is TV ratings for NBA, and a good fundamental team like San Antonio when winning their championships didn't pull ratings. Duncan, a strong fundamental player, team player, is dull in the viewers eyes.

    Old school doesn't draw young audiences...

    The peak of the NBA was the Jordan years, following Magic and Bird, and the end of the Bulls run was the end of an era.

    I don't know what it will take to bring the viewers back to the NBA.

     
  19. I think you're right, but the league made a terrible mistake in linking itself with the hip-hop culture. Last time I looked, most tickets were being bought by corporate types, not ganstas. Couple that with fan resentment over the obscene salaries for 18 year old high school dropouts who can't shoot 50% from the line and you have an alienated fan base. Now they are exposed as incapable of handling a team of half decent greek players who happened to be able to shoot medium jumpers and play a zone.

    What it all amounts to is a crippling loss of legitimacy for the league. The old excuse, that they were just a group of all stars thrown together for a few games, doesn't wash now. They were hand picked for team play, and they had the best coaching available. Still, they looked like they had never seen the pick and roll or a zone defense. Or shot very many foul shots.
     
  20. I doubt it would even have to be by NBA rules.

    Field the champion Pistons of a couple of years back (with some rest and at least a month to prepare for the FIBA rules) against the world and see what happens. Same for the Spurs. Actually any NBA championship team that has played together for more than a few weeks.
     
  21. Anything that requires sound fundamentals, discipline and regimented training won't draw the young audiences that the NBA believes is their audience. The real blood and guts viewers would return with a strong dose of following of the rules and excellence in execution. Duncan is not a good example there as he is dull in his own eyes. A de-thugging of the NBA would result in the cry of racism, but that's what would be needed. The NBA suffered when it became a slave to "Showtime" Lakers style of basketball.

    Back in the day (my youth), we would comment on the allowance of the extra step in a layup so the player could execute a dunk. We saw the allowance of carrying the basketball because of the smaller hands of players not being able to execute correct ball handling. We saw the game changing as the rules were selectively executed. Then came the Shaq rules.

    Shaq rules? Yeah, you couldn't call three seconds as that's where the big man had to live. In the paint! You also had to allow them to be a bit more physical as they were bigger and they couldn't be expected to be able to not bounce the smaller players around. Remember Daryl Dawkins, bustin' backboards? That was done starting from outside of the paint!

    That's what the white dominated audiences wanted to see. Massive players, battleships, dominating the game. Dr. J was too smooth. That game had to go. The game became more confrontational. Big men had to be seen (and allowed to be) dominating in the paint! I remember the birth of the "Big Guard." Reggie Theus, Magic, etc. The game started downhill from there, IMHO. Not these players, but the mindset of the league as to how to grow the game appeal from then forward.

    And now with the hands off new rules of the NBA, the "And 1" league must appear to be growing. This will be where the next phenomenon must appear to come from to justify the next slide in the game standards. :)
     
  22. People keep saying this was an all star team. Well, so were the international teams. A quarter of the international players play in the NBA. We did not lose to the Red Army team of old. These are young guys just like our own team, who play in various pro leagues.

    Probably we would beat them in a best of seven series. So what? Didn't our guys understand it was one and done? The same way they decide the NCAA? Are the NCAA's now suspect because each game is not a best of seven series?

    The idea behind picking our team, ie to pick a real team with guys who had useful skills, not just allstars, was good but the execution was flawed. We had an ex-Duke guy, Shane Battier but probably needed J.J. Reddick instead. We had a Brad Miller but probably needed a defensive stopper like Bruce Bowen. We needed some hard-nosed guys who would play defense and not expect someone else to do it.

    I have to question the coaching as well. Whenyou have a total defensive breakdown, you have to look at the bench. Of course we had a self-confirmed genius and molder of young men, Coach K, so that couldn't be the problem. Or could it be that he had the same problem the players did? The ref's somehow didn;t seem to understand who he was either.
     
  23. Adam Morrison would have helped more than Reddick.

    Bowen looked slow in tryouts.

    Bottom line?

    59% free throws. No excuse, Shaq, Duncan, and Ben Wallace weren't shooting.

    I think each of the players on the USA team averaged better than 59% during the NBA regular season and NBA playoffs last year.

    You can blame coaching, but the players have to make the shots.

    32% from the three point line? Again, pathetic. No excuse.

    Yes, defending the pick and roll would help, but the Lakers couldn't defend the pick and roll and they won 3 NBA championships with no defense for pick and roll.

    I blame the players, 100% for not showing the excellence in shooting the ball, as that really is the bottom line. The best players in the world can't hit shots? You think the players from Greece can actually cover these guys, that they can't get open shots?

    Can you imagine the first Dream Team shooting only 50% from the line, and 32% from the 3 point line?

    This team only had one player who had willed his team to an NBA championship, Dwayne Wade, and he was spent physically from the NBA Championship run.

    The first Dream Team had some of the greatest players of all time.

    Would Kobe have helped?

    Maybe, at least Kobe always makes his throws.

    Who was on this team who can take over and dominate when needed consistently?

    Do we really see a Magic, MJ, Robinson, Bird, Barkley etc. on this team?

    Not yet. These kids are still kids, and I think they got beat by grown men.

    We will see if 2 years of growth and maturity, and a bitter defeat helps motivate them...I have my doubts.

    p.s. Coach K has a losing record in Championship play. Decent Coach, but not sufficient to inspire men. I would go with an NBA coach over a college coach any time. Look at the NBA, how many coaches come from college gigs and do well in the pros, very, very few.

     

  24. Great Story! I'd imagine you'll be telling that one for years to come, if not to your grandchildren, somebody elses!


    Basketball is much more susceptible to this type of Me-First degeneration because one player can take over a game, (Kobe's 81 points for instance).

    Our's is a celebrity obsessed culture, NBA stars are celebrities first and atheletes second. Not sure if you can blame them exactly, it might be the most profitable approach.

    You can't get away with this type of shit in football or baseball. Humility comes to fast and hard in these sports.


    I caught the first 3/4 quarters of US vs. Argentina, Argentina ran like a well-oiled machine in the first half. The US had no team cohesion at all. One pass, take a shot, ... I noticed they did an awful lot of whining about calls to the refs though. Kind-Of embarassing.
     
  25. My point was not so much Reddick or Bowen, but the fact that they needed a couple of three point shooters and a couple of defensive stoppers. LeBron, Carmelo et al are neither, although they are fantastic open court players. In retrospect, they made a big mistake in cutting Gilbert Arenas, who is a terrific three point shooter. Actually, I think Kobe would have been just what they needed, a great shooter and defensive player. Plus, he seems to respect Coach K.
     

  26. Not sure if they are America's biggest problems, but if you wanted to destroy a country from the inside out, introducing these types of influences on that country's youth would be a good first step.

    There was a time when kids spent the majority of their childhood learning respect ... for their family, their communities, their city, their state, their country, their god and for themselves. This god-damn cultural sewage teaches nothing but disrespect for all of the above... and I do include the NBA in that mix.

    A good next step would be to convince them that America is the cause of all the ills in the world, God and religion is a farce and the root of all evil, and competition and success is to be shunned, ridiculed and targeted for random redistrubution.

    In short, introduce today's "liberalism" and relativism ... sure way to destroy a civilization. Add an illegal invasion and porn, lots and lots of porn ....
     
  27. Oh No!

    Another "Church Lady" telling us the porn is the Devil...