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Unions vs. the little guy in Wisconsin recall fight

  1. Unions vs. the little guy in Wisconsin recall fight

    By: Byron York 03/14/11 8:05 PM

    If you're a Republican, it's a scenario straight out of "Alice in Wonderland." Fourteen Wisconsin state senators, all Democrats, flee the state for three weeks, bringing government to a halt in an effort to stop Gov. Scott Walker's budget bill. After three weeks, the fugitive Democrats return in failure. And then, when a rich and highly organized effort to punish lawmakers is launched, it's directed not at the Democrats who ran away but at the Republicans who stayed home and did their job.

    That is precisely what is now happening in Wisconsin. Local and national labor organizations, enraged by the successful Republican effort to limit the collective bargaining powers of public employees unions, are pouring money and manpower into petitions to recall GOP state senators. At the same time, Republican drives to recall runaway Democrats, while rich in volunteer spirit, are working with far less money and organized support.

    On the Democratic side are the AFL-CIO, the big public worker unions, party organizations and activist groups like MoveOn.org, which have already raised millions of dollars online. On the Republican side are a few Tea Party groups, taxpayer organizations and not a lot more.

    "They're off to a quicker start," Wisconsin Republican Party executive director Mark Jefferson says. "We have some structural disadvantages because taxpayer groups and volunteer organizations are more loosely put together than a union syndicate."

    Officially, there are eight Republicans and eight Democrats facing recall petitions. But it appears the most serious challenges involve three on each side. Democrats are working hard to knock off Republican senators Dan Kapanke, Alberta Darling and Randy Hopper. Republicans are targeting Democratic senators Robert Wirch, Jim Holperin and Dave Hansen.

    Wisconsin law requires recall petitioners to gather thousands of signatures before an actual election is held. The specific number, based on voting in the most recent elections, is different for each district but ranges from about 15,000 to 22,000.

    That's where the organizing strength of the AFL-CIO and its unions come in. Labor and its Democratic allies realize that Wisconsin is a critical battle and are desperate to make sure other states do not follow Wisconsin's lead. Republicans, meanwhile, seem less aware of the stakes.

    "If Republicans do not take this very seriously, they could be in trouble here," says Steve Baas of the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce, which supports Walker's budget reforms.

    The imbalance of power might be alarming to national conservatives, but it doesn't seem to worry the troops on the ground trying to recall Democratic senators.

    "I think it's a huge advantage for us because we are really, really grass roots," says Dan Hunt, an out-of-business real estate developer in the Kenosha area who heads Taxpayers to Recall Robert Wirch. While the other side has more money, Hunt says, "We haven't had a problem raising funds. We're fully funded as of now. We're getting national support; it's just national individual support."

    Beyond organization, there is a difference in the two recall efforts. The conservative drive to recall Democratic senators began in outrage over the Democrats' flight from the state. How could lawmakers who took an oath of office do that? The liberal drive to recall Republicans began as an effort to pressure those senators to vote against Walker's budget bill. Now that the bill has passed, it's an effort to make examples of the senators who supported it.

    For Hunt, it's about principle.

    "I'm doing it because my senator didn't represent me in Madison," Hunt says. "He left, and I think that is the worst thing that can happen in a legislative democracy. People who choose to leave their post on purpose, just to avoid a vote on a bill -- that's an egregious act that requires citizen reaction."

    Both sides have several more weeks to gather signatures. After that, there is a period for legal challenges of the petitions and then another period before the actual recall election, which could come in mid-to-late summer. Will the intensity of union activists last until then? And just as important, will the intensity of ordinary citizens, the people who are volunteering for Hunt's group and others like it, stay alive as well?

    Unions are very good at things like gathering signatures and chartering buses to take people to the polls. But don't rule out the team that's fighting on principle.

    Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/polit...ttle-guy-wisconsin-recall-fight#ixzz1GjMsaVhz
  2. A real estate developer? Thats your grass roots organizer?
    Nuff said.
  3. I think the only problem for the Republicans could be turn-out. Recalls are boring affairs unless you are really really mad at your Senator.
  4. i'm hoping unions win - not because i want anything to do with unions, but because i want to see the government go bankrupt and the unions lose everything.
  5. LVS is DOWN almost 25% from where you "thought" it was a good buy. So much for your "thinking."
  6. No. If America defaults, it will be a fundamental shift in the world. If America defaults, WWIII is a fait accompli. That is if it has not already started.
  7. Odumbo is a TOTAL POS... and a disgrace as a prezident. Can we recall his ass?? :mad:
  8. You will likely see both. Unfortunately such would also mean the bankruptcy of nearly all Americans. Do you want that? Do you want what historically follows that... the kind of world your children will live in?
  9. if it has to happen, it has to happen. i've got news for you, the US will default - it's just a matter of time.

    i've got my farmland, foodstuffs and guns. do you?
  10. do i want it? the reset needs to happen. we're too far down the road. but i've a question for you:

    do you honestly think that endgame is avoidable at this point?
  11. Agree about the necessity of "reset", but the only reset I can envision is brought on by the destruction of the US financially.... massive inflation, huge decline in the $USD.

    Can it be avoided? Almost certainly NOT. There are too many tit-suckers getting more than they deserve and more than they should have ever been promised... and politicians too willing to "kick the can down the road"... to attempt a repair before all is lost.

    My BEST and most logical hope... is that it takes 40 years to accomplish the wipeout. By then, I'll either be dead or have Alzheimers and won't know the difference. Unfortunately, I doubt we can survive another 40 years before the destruction.

    Unless and until we get 50 MILLION citizens... marching in the steets, carrying signs, and demanding politicos stop the destruction... we're going to continue doing our "Thelma and Louise".

    And BTW... ODUMBO IS THE BIGGEST POS of all. He should stand trial for TREASON... for his $5 TRILLION in deficits during his first term!!

    :( :(
  12. i dont want it drawn out. i dont want my children to have to suffer it without me. i would prefer it happen now, and allow me to help them get through it and then provide them the ability to start fresh with a new country and new, responsible rules for them. it is my generation's mess, throwing it upon my children is cowardice.

    i will help clean it up.
  13. I'd like to think we'd try to fix things if the majority of Americans had a clue and a conscience. Unfortunately, that's not the case.... and our politicos are not inclined to voluntarily take on the necessary pain. And even more unfortunately... politicos are happy to ACCELERATE the destruction for their own personal and political greed. (I don't know how they expect themselves and their children/grandchildren to escape the carnage they're creating, but perhaps they don't bother to look that far ahead.) :( :(
  14. If we actually do default, and our currency if removed from the world stage due to devaluation, do you seriously think you have enuf food and ammo to hold off lawlessness for more than a year or two. U don't, and neither does anyone else. If we break down, and assuming Russia or China does not take prompt advantage, this is how it will go. Find your nearest combat ready military base. That is your best shot. If you live in Texas, find your way to Ft. Hood, for example. Our military bases are how we will reorganize into whatever we will become after the meltdown. Me, I will be headed back to where I trained, which is Ft. Benning. America will fight another civil war to see who will control what. Do you really want that? I know i don't. We have been an imperial power for a long time, and other nations will come in to claim their stake.

    My God, look at what is happening on the border states right now, we will have wars on at least three fronts. If you are an American, then I would implore you to take a good pragmatic look at human nature, no way we come out of this in good shape, unless you have enuf ammo to hold off the nearest warlord who will be stationed at the nearest combat ready military base.
  15. stop with the melodrama. and yes, i have enough food/seeds and weaponry, with 80 acres of hunting/farm land.
  16. Nice. Can we come live with you? :) I got an additional 500 rds of 7.62 being delivered today, I'm a better than average marksman and I'll be bringing this to the table.

  17. The democrats will not let up with Scott Walker, they can see that socialism is losing ground, and they saw how popular Christie became after taking on the unions in New Jersey, and they are not about to let that happen again with Walker. They will throw every dollar they have at trying to bury walker, to scare the republicans who are taking on unions in all the other states.

    It is actually not such a bad thing for republicans, because it seems that they completely missed Christie, who should have been their target and now all of the democrats vitriol will be redirected at walker, who has no chance at being the president, or anything bigger than a congressman anyways.
  18. Any port in a storm eh ...Lucifer. How is that pentangle you've got painted on your parents basement floor?

  19. Is that marble or linoleum?

  20. Sweeeeeeeet.

    I've got the same thing in black furniture. How is that scope setup working out? Can you still use the iron site?

    500 rounds of .308 is quite a pile isn't it? :D
  21. Actually that's a internet photo, it was faster than pulling mine out of the closet. My scope is smaller but I have the same scope mount as pictured. I love the peep sight.
  22. I do. :)

    Unless they burn me out of course. They had better not let me escape up into the rocks with my M1A though. I might have something to say about the proceedings if they do. :D
  23. \

    absolutely. anyone who can contribute can become a part of the commune.

    incidentally, this is my newest addition:


    about the closest looking pic i can find online at the moment.

    my next to get after tax return time is the hk-416. just having problems finding the right guy to buy it from.
  24. M-14?
  25. M1A, the semi auto version of the M14.
  26. Actually, most of the NIB weapons are from brick and mortar dealers around the country but if you have a problem it is nice to have the dealer within driving range.
  27. Judging by some of your posts, I bet when you guys caress your guns you just wish someone would go ahead and make your day.

    Why do I get the feeling that some of you gun junkies feel you were destined to be action heroes? (Quite the letdown, eh?)

    When watching a blazing shoot-out on TV, do you guys stroke your guns and wish 3D was real?

    And, finally, have you gun worshippers ever taken the time to perhaps consider why guns are such a necessary spice in your lives? Would their absence make your existence that unbearably bland?

    Thoughts to ponder.
  28. ok, let me restate.

    i dont like to purchase a weapon i cannot hold and inspect first.
  29. you're obviously trolling again for responses, but i'll humor you.

    just because you do not see the point in guns does not mean others have to share your opinions. are you equally critical at people who collect stamps or coins? how about people who are avid sports fans and collect every possible thing with that sports team they worship on it? what about people who enjoy golf as a hobby and travel all over to play a round of golf? do you have issues with all of these folks?

    some of us like to collect weapons. it isn't our problem that you're too much of a pussy to want to. :) (now i am trolling).
  30. Only to the extent that they can cause carnage in the wrong hands. Fortunately, stamp and coin collectors tend to be a level-headed bunch.
  31. the argument has been made previously, but cars, knives, baseball bats, bow and arrow, etc., all of that can cause carnage in the wrong hands.

    its not about the gun. its about the people who shouldnt own one.
  32. And they all seem to assemble right here at ET. :)
  33. which again brings us back to your trolling for responses issue. i should have known better than to try to engage you in a thoughtful conversation.
  34. I realize I may come across that way. But I assure you in no uncertain terms, I really believe what I write about guns and gun devotees. Some of you guys really give me pause.
  35. Exactly. You seem pretty thoughtful to be engaging Gabfly, imo.

    He dislikes guns. Fair enough. But he also harbors the belief that it makes him superior. He is implying that he is enlightened compared to troglodyte gun owners. I don't buy it.
  36. Only when compared to you and people like you. Otherwise, I'm just another face in the normal crowd.
  37. What a bleeding heart girlie man crock of shit.

    And judging by your posts you stroke your naked Obama doll every time he makes one of his ridiculous speeches.
  38. And now for some overcompensation:
  39. :confused:
    You have more than one Obama doll? :D
  40. ??? The M14 has always been semi-auto, hasn't it? Or was the original M14 also full-auto?
  41. The M14 has a selector for either full auto or semi auto, the M1A is semi auto only.
  42. Melodrama, the military must have a lot of drama queens in it then because I am telling u the government is preparing a response, I know this to be fact.
  43. really now. pray tell, what is the military supposedly preparing a response to again?
  44. I see the natural born killers are out toning down the rhetoric while circle jerking around pictures of a rifle. :D

    FYI, what you guys really want is a AR-15. It's lighter, easier to covert to full auto, and you can get a 100 round magazine. Even if you could convert the M1A to full auto the recoil renders it pretty much useless, just like it did with the M14. The M14 is a hell of a rifle, especially for distance, but it's heavy as hell to carry all day, and on full auto you won't hit shit because of the major recoil.
    But the real surprise you boys are in for is when you become the hunted as well as the hunter. It's a game changer for sure. You might think you're ready for that, but you're not.

  45. way to go, rocket scientist. that's exactly what my picture was.

    as for what i'm "ready for", dont preach to me. you have no idea who i am or what my background is.
  46. Have you fired yours much? They still say it's a great rifle if you need the range and the heft of the 7.62.
  47. Nor do you of mine, slick. Ever killed anyone before? I have! Ever been shot at before? I have! Ever had a real friend bleed out all over you? I have! Where you been, hero?
  48. Not lately but yes I have. It is a great rifle and cartridge. I prefer the 7.62mm over the 5.56mm.
  49. Is the ammo for the 7.62 significantly more than for the 5.56?
  50. You forgot your down with corporations rhetoric.
  51. first of all, i never said anything about what you may or may not be prepared for, so take your wacko mentality and stuff it up your ass. you were the one saying i wasn't prepared for anything - not the other way around.

    as for the other answers to your question, i'll just leave it at "yes, yes," and "thankfully, no.".

    shut the fuck up, already.
  52. Fuck you punk! I ain't impressed!
  53. nor do i give a shit whether or not you are impressed. so go back to whatever other thread you were foaming at the mouth in before you decided to pick a fight in this one, yambag.

    remember: you started this argument. you.
  54. I started nothing. I posted a comment at no one person. Just gave my opinion in general. You were the one that took it personally and responded back.
  55. Lucrum and i were the only two who posted pictures of weapons. so who was it you were referring to, then, when you said "you"? then you got all 1000 yard stare on me when i told you that you knew nothing about me, accusing me of saying stuff about you.

    reading comprehension?
  56. You were not the only two discussing the subject of weapons and all this, we're armed to the teeth and ready for war crap going on here. What's that all about? I'm simply pointing out that playing keyboard warrior ain't at all like the real thing, and most, not all, but most here have zero idea of what the hell they're talking about when it comes to killing and wars.
    Nice jab though on the 1000 yard stare. Been awhile since I heard that.
  57. no, we were not the only two discussing it, just the main conversationalists. anyone reading your comment would easily associate it with either he or i. however, if you are clarifying that you did not mean me, then i tactfully retract my commentary in return.

    "There. Now we can be friends again." - Doc Holiday

    don't go lunatic on me, mate. i acknowledge that you both claim and appear to have experience with weapons. great. all i'm saying is that if some economic collapse comes and people are fighting for food and there is no law or order, i will be as prepared as i can be. i have taken a lot of time in making plans on it, and have suffered the insults and ridicule because of it from family and friends.
  58. In rural Illinios there is a lot of talk about this. They let me in on it because I served. Former military tell para military this all the time. Two Apaches would easily eliminate a full company of poorly organized, poorly supplied and poorly trained "domestic terrorists" Do not think for a minute that our government will not take the Gaddafi solution if it's hand is forced. This aint the british and those are not muskets they are carrying.
  59. wtf is wrong with you guys? when i talk about "being ready for the collapse" it is not to take on a squad of troops with an Abrams. it's to defend against people trying to come take away my food or rob my crops or harm my family so they can take what i have amassed.

    christ on a bike.
  60. Sorry, I may have been one to misread you.

    Here is the second scenario.

    The thugs you will be fighting against might have a better supply line than you do. Winning wars is not about armaments, it is about the supply line. What if, God forbid, these thugs have been told that America never loved them. What if, God forbid, these thugs were supplied with AK's and regular ammo. So here you are on your ranch, and thugs are making regular incursions onto your ranch. U are isolated in your ranch, the goons have mobility. In short, you are a castle under siege. Eventually, you will need to come out. Quickly if they shut off your water. You will need a way to rearm and restock. How do you propose to do this without military help? If worst comes to worst other factions will be inside our borders. They will be your problem, not the government.
  61. Waco, baby, Waco!
  62. Hmmph.

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  63. OK! We smoke the peace pipe. Let's hope it doesn't come to fighting our neighbors for scraps of food. If it does, let's kill a banker first.:eek: Sorry, just had to get that in.
  64. Nice! But I doubt he'd hit crap over 100 feet away. I liked the M-14 for anything 200 yards and out. M-16 was much better in a fire fight, so long as you kept it clean, which was problematic in the f'n jungle. Now real up close and personal like, the M-14 has an edge cause of it's weight. Butt stroke to the head with that baby, and I guarantee the enemy is going down.
  65. The bankers will be on the other side of the pond by the time the shit hits the fan. They will see it in the air. What we will face is that the United States will no longer be United. That is where we will have to make our stand as a nation. I think I read that some Russian fellow has already predicted this. We are the world's last, and best, hope for something different. That is not melodramatics, that is truth. We have been a thorn in the side of the NWO since we upset the Brits in the Revolution. Now, we are on the ropes. Will we remember who we are, or will we be remembered for who we were?
  66. It's no better in the sand. The M16-A2 is an amazing piece of weaponry, a child or petite woman could fire it with accuracy. If only it were not so diva like:D

    U used the A1s, tho, so I don't know what the difference is.
  67. what if space aliens come down and side with me? what if they are fire breathing? then i'll have the upper hand.


    i cannot prepare for every eventuality, only the likely outcomes. stop with the movie plots.

    oh, and i have a well. they can't turn off my water.
  68. the bankers should be the first to die. i hope, if there is an Armageddon, that i run into Ben Bernanke. i really pray i do. the justice i deal to him would be one for the record books.
  69. Where do you think movie plots come from?:D

    Having a well give a clear advantage tho.
  70. Wells require power for the pump. Not many hand-pumped wells around anymore and I wouldn't want to have to go outside to pump water.

    I just store massive quantities which I use in rotation. I write the purchase date on the box. Water is the most important thing were I live. My shop has a series of stainless-steel storage racks for the purpose. It is really about earthquakes here so cases of large plastic bottles in cardboard boxes might come through a quake ok.

    Yeah, I drink year-old water. Maybe not the best solution but it is workable.
  71. i have significant water storage in milk gallon jugs. besides, the power to the well can be generated by the 120 amp a day solar panels (4) that I have. not as much power as i want from solar, but i haven't bought more of them yet.
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  73. This is what I'd like to have.

  74. I'd like one of those, too. They would be our pass into OHMS Mountain Estates.