Home > General Topics > Wall St. News > Uber drivers can now lease cars through uber... But prices look insane!!

Uber drivers can now lease cars through uber... But prices look insane!!



  1. I can't tell from the wording of your post if you think $650.00 is too high or low. IMO .......... $650.00 is a good price.





    :)
     
  2. Most of these guys that are UBERing have little or no credit history. UBER makes it possible for them to get into an acceptable vehicle for the job by essentially self financing through a third party affiliate. And 650/mo is NOT a good lease price, at least for the general public with decent credit.
     

  3. $650 is insanely high...I mean off the charts high...like higher than Dow 18000 high....
     
  4. A lot of people rent cars for $162 a week. It's actually a pretty good deal if it has unlimited mileage. It's not unusual to pay 40-50 or 60 dollars a day to rent a car and then you pay an extra 30-50 percent in added taxes...local, federal, special rental car taxes, tourist taxes....it adds up quick.

    Have you ever taken a cab ? Ask a cab driver how much he makes. There are a lot of fee structures for cab drivers. If the cab company (yellow cab) owns the car, then the driver has to pay 69, 79 dollars a day to drive the car and he keeps everything he earns from customers. Around here (Dallas, Ft Worth) they only earn about 300, 400 a day and then they have to deduct their gas (1 tank a day ) and car fee. Cabbies love cash. If you use a debit card or credit card, the company takes 7 percent off the top (from the cabbie) for the luxury of a customer using an electronic payment.

    There are other structures in place if you own your own car, but you are going to pay one way or the other.

    But $162 a week for an Escape........that's pretty good if that's all you pay and there are not any other extras. Besides, if you are a cab driver you might put 300 miles a day on your car. That's 1500 miles a week, 60k a year if you work 5 days a week or so. It's a good way to run your car into the ground. You may as well do it to someone else's car.
     
  5. Keep in mind ..... the $650 gets you an Uber approved car.



    :)
     


  6. The $162 a week I think is just the car which means you have to factor gas/insurance and wear and tear. All I know is that you can lease a Toyota Camry for about $225-250 a month...with maybe $500 out of pocket..$650 a month gets you into a Mercedes E-350 an Infiniti Q70 ....a BMW 5 series an Audi A6...
     
  7. Nothing is wrong, you have to take mileage into consideration when leasing....
     


  8. What many people don't understand about leasing is that if you sign an agreement where you are only allowed 10,000 or 15,000 miles a year and go over that amount that they think they have to pay the .15 cents or .25 cents for each mile they go over......you don't ....I know people who have leased including myself that if you go into a new car lease after the 36 month term is up they will wash away any miles over the miles you signed for at the beginning of the lease....of course if you decide to not lease again yes you will be charged for the overage on the odometer... But stay with the same company and hand in a car with 4500 miles over the limit you signed for and they will gladly look the other way.
     
  9. MOST of these UBER leases come with unlimited mileage. They fully understand who they are leasing to.
     
  10. They don't look the other way, they tack that amount on to your new lease....
    Rarely if they want to sell you a car desperately ( IE the car you selected has been on the lot a very long time or a model that is just not moving eg Pontiac Aztek )they may deduct that amount out of their profit but that is a very, very rare instance.
     
  11. Yes, it's high, and it's being compared to sub-prime leasing.

    UBER is basically a public service. These drivers paying $160/week for a Corolla are barely making minimum wage when all factors are considered (see Bloomberg link) .

    Once the infrastructure is built and autonomous cars become reality, UBER will no longer require their "indentured servants" to participate.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ase-machine-where-almost-anyone-can-get-a-car
     

  12. That's what I was thinking...the amount they have to make to just cover the expense of the vehicle is crazy...you would have to earn about $900-$950 before taxes to afford that car....that's ludicrous... Anyone thinking $160 a week for a corolla is a deal is an idiot....I could lease that corolla with maybe $500 out of pocket and about $199 a month....
     

  13. Unless you aren't paying attention to your new monthly cost of your new lease after you turn in the old one then yes ....if I trade in my car and I was paying say $250 a month and the new lease is the same car for say $289 then yes I know they are trying to some how make up for the overage on the odometer....I would make sure to roll into a new lease with the same monthly figures.
     
  14. Best of luck to you....
     


  15. That's all you have to say?
     
  16. ...I'd rather just buy a Porsche 911 :p:cool:
    1999, black. only 73K miles. $18K (quite a steal, for a car that originally costs $90K brand new)

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/322137086573
    i've been eyeing this car for a while. there are quite a few much cheaper then this, but i like this configuration.
    (sorry for kind of deviating from the thread topic)
     

  17. For a 1999 model that Porsche has a timeless look to it...the cost to repair might be the only thing I would worry about though.....also scary to see how $100k+ cars are worth less than 1/2 their value after 5-7 years . especially the BMW 7 series which literally tanks in price after 5 yrs.
     
  18. We both gave our opinions let's agree to disagree....
     
  19. Remember that you cant ride a lease like crazy usually caped to 12k miles per year; perhaps uber advantage is in there.
     
  20. You are correct. No car company "looks the other way". What the f*ck is that shit. These uber drivers are putting 20k to 30k miles a year on these cars, in other words, they are destroying these vehicles. They are absolutely not sellable after the lease and no one in their right mind would ever take over the lease of a 2 year old car with 60k miles on it unless the lease was for free. LOL. Most leases have VERY tight mileage restrictions. Why on God's green earth would a leasing company just eat the loss on a 25k car? For charity? The car is 100% not sellable. There is no rolling over of the lease, you're mileage penalty gets tacked onto the next lease like rolling your losing trading position into the next month. The $650 a month is a steal for these uber drivers who 98% don't even have enough credit to buy a dirt bicycle let alone a new car.
     
  21. Leases have very specific mileage restrictions, however everything is negotiable.

    Having leased cars for over 20+ years, here's my experience:

    You can specify the mileage you want PRIOR to the lease, so if the advertised terms are "12k/year" you can sign the contract for 15k/year, or even 20k/year, it will just cost a bit more in payments, but still MUCH LESS than the mileage penalty for going over if you turned in the car at the end of lease. In other words, you don't have to sign a lease agreeing to the "12k" miles per year, EVEN if that's the advertised term. Just like prop firms, you're signing a contract, so you can negotiate the terms of the contract with the dealer, just as you negotiate the commissions you pay to the prop firm.

    Regarding the end of lease, if you are willing to finance the residual balance and keep the car, then you won't pay the penalty for overage on the miles (since you're obviously willing to buy the car, hence the dealer doesn't have to sell the car at auction or as a lease return on the lot). However, I was once offered an upgrade to an Altima back in the late 90's when I returned a Sentra with several thousands of miles over the lease terms (I can't remember the exact number). The dealer offered to WAIVE the overage IF I rolled into another lease for a new Altima. I declined and decided to buyout the Sentra instead, but that was an option at the time. (I was NOT charged for the extra miles on the Sentra since I was buying it out via financing the balloon payment).

    Regarding Uber and their Xchange program, I have no idea what the terms of the lease are with the drivers. From the articles, it seems like the drivers are getting a raw deal. If a driver is going to put 5k/miles a month on the car, and drive it to the ground, then I can guarantee you that the residual value of the car after 36 months will be much lower than what is stated on Uber's contract with the driver. So not only is the driver paying MORE than a standard lease while driving the Uber car, he's getting much less value on the back end if he chooses to pay Uber the remaining residual value.
     
  22. I never heard of anyone being forced to drive for Uber.
    You sound like one of those guys who made 50k/year and bought a $900,000 house then blamed the mortgage company when you got foreclosed.
    If someone is dumb enough to destroy their vehicle for what amounts to slightly above minimum wage, then that is their CHOICE.
     

  23. This seems pretty clear. People who think $650 per month rental for the kind of usage those cars get is "insanely high" must be living on another planet (one with a 1950's economy, perhaps?).
     
  24. They are not getting hosed and here is how you can figure that out. Let them go into the open market and buy the car themselves. Oh wait, they can't, they have no money and no credit. I have a little experience dealing with people in this world with no money no credit and here is a spoiler alert, it's not good. LOL. Yes, you can negotiate your pre-lease terms (to a point). I would love for you to give me a place I can call today where I tell them I want 40k miles a year on my lease terms and have them not hang up the phone on me. Yes of course a normal person can extend the miles from 12k to 15k , hell even maybe to 18k which is a stretch but possible. But 40k/year? LOL. That will get you a dial tone. Prove me wrong.
     
  25. I looked at the current Ford offer for an Escape. $219/36 months, 2699 up front. Spread the up front over the lease at 75 per month, $294/month. Mileage over 31,000 is 0.15 per. Lets say 31000 per year, that's 62000 over that is 9300. Spread the mileage over 36, $258/month.

    $219+$75+$258=$552. So uber is pretty close considering the shitty credit of the people that would go for this.
     
  26. Many cab companies outside of the major cities, where you have your own car and they paint and equip it for you, charge you $250 a week to be a part of the company (like Red Top Cabs). You basically keep anything you earn over $250 weekly so you have to determine how much you drive and when.

    The Uber deal seems pretty normal, you pay $650 a month to be an Uber driver and keep everything you make which requires you to drive a lot (minus any % Uber takes out of your fares). You are driving a taxi, unless you drive every rush hour and weekend night in a month you are not going to be rich.
     
  27. Maybe this is cheaper:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_New_York_City

    Medallion taxicabs are named after the medallion issued by the TLC and attached to a taxi’s hood. Medallions were first issued in 1937 when the city created a licensing scheme, setting the number of cabs at 11,787. This number remained fixed until 1996. [70] Medallions are sold from the City at infrequent auctions, or by a medallion owner. They increased in price from around $2,500 in 1947 to$280,000 in 2004[71] on up through values of around 1million[72] to $1.3 million in 2013-14. [70] Because of the high prices, medallions (and most cabs) are owned by investment companies and are leased to drivers ("hacks"). An auction was held in 2006 where 308 new medallions were sold. In the 2006 auction, all medallions were designated as either hybrids (254) or handicap accessible (54) taxis. In October 2011, due to the longtime trend in the medallions' supply and demand, auction prices first topped $1 million.[73]
     
  28. exactly Mav. Stupidity is alive and well. lol at people saying they can lease a porsche for that money, just how dumb can you be? they are leasing a *ucking taxi with 30k-50k pa going on the clock.
     

  29. "They only earn $300-$400 per day". LMFAO!!
     
  30. You can tell who the Millennials are on this forum can't you.
     
  31. Many uber drivers who are smart about schedules and live near airports can do 4 to 5 runs a day at $30 - $40 a pop. You are not going to be rolling in it but even part time hours you can make supplemental income. I doubt there are any good earners doing inner city runs for $5 a pop sitting in traffic.
     
  32. You can prove it to yourself. Find Uber drivers who are willing to share you their numbers or reveal exactly how it works. Then you'd figure out how they're getting hosed.
     
  33. However, if one is paying $640-$800/month just for the lease to earn the supplemental income, then it becomes less enticing, especially starting a business with a heavy attrition rate. My guess is most drivers just haven't spent the time doing the math.

    Here's an interesting link from Uber drivers regarding pay:

    http://uberpeople.net/forums/Pay/
     
  34. Of course nobody is being "forced" lol! I used the term "indentured servants" as a figure of speech.

    The articles posted are regarding the lease terms, and whether or not they are favorable.

    Some Uber drivers took the lease because they felt they "had no other choice."

    Paying around $640-800/month for a Corolla is NOT favorable, as the Uber drivers quoted in the Bloomberg article figured out.
     
  35. I don't feel like Uber's already such a brand that it could justify prices this high.
     
  36. I have ridden in a lot of uber cars in several different countries and several US cities. I ALWAYS chat the driver up about why they are doing this and how much they make. In almost all cases they say they love their job and the pay is OK. In most cases their reasons for doing the job are:

    1. losing their last job

    2. freedom they get from working their own hours

    3. allows them to work while going on job interviews

    4. better then minimum wage

    As others have pointed out, this is not a "Career" job. Nobody is going to say when they are 12 years old I want to grow up and be an uber driver. But I think most of us here are mature enough to know life can be cruel. Especially towards older workers and especially towards older less educated workers. Most people are doing uber because they have to and there are no better alternatives. This is also true why most people drive a taxi. In Chicago on the trading floors, the joke we always had is every trader is one bad trade away from driving a taxi. And many traders got their start driving taxis or went back to driving one when they blew out.

    I think the lease program by uber is a good idea because I honestly don't see how it is feasible for the "avg" person with low income and marginal credit to get a lease on their own especially driving 30k miles a year. That would make this job unobtainable for them.
     
  37. Union demands city make Uber, Lyft pay drivers fees
    San Francisco is extending a deadline for Uber and Lyft drivers to purchase a business license, effectively wiping out hundreds of dollars in late fees. However, Service Employees International Union 1021 is calling on the city to force the ride companies themselves to pony up the license fees rather than the drivers. (S.F. Examiner)
     
  38. It is not a lifetime business but I can see people using hte lease terms because they cannot get better credit to buy their own car and have a plan of 5 years to earn. $800 a month sounds like a lot but trips to the airport cost $30 to $50. You cannot whore yourself all day inside the city for $5 rides. You have to be willing to work early mornings when a lot of people need to go to the airport and do pick ups all day. A good Uber driver can earn their monthly cost in a full week and spend the rest of the month earning a profit.

    Not gonnabe rich but if you put in a ton of hours at the right time taking the right fares then it can work out for some people to earn some money for the short term.
     
  39. I'm surprised Obama hasn't provided those on welfare with an Obamacar to go do this Uber/Lift thing to satisfy the work requirement.
     
  40. Google 1999 porsche 911 engine problems. And here's where you could wind up further down the line Chevy LS engines - engine swappers appear to prefer those.

    I'm looking for a DeLorean to throw one of these suckers in.
     
  41. Blanket statement like this is worthless.
     

  42. Really. Tell that to a friend of mine who returned his Acura and went into the same Acura (2016) with zero problems and same monthly payment....he was way over mileage
     
  43. Everyone still fails to realize that to pay the $650 monthly car payment you have to earn $900-$950 ...
     
  44. You're on a roll.
     
  45. Look, this isn't rocket science. From the two articles posted in this thread, it's easy to see that the Uber Xchange is catering to those with poor credit history, many of them being immigrants, just as the Payday loan companies who reap 300%+ interest rates on those who are desperate for short term cash and don't understand how the APR is calculated.

    From the articles, these are the most revealing statements:

    "Uber knows full well that for many people the Uber gig lasts just a few months."

    "The terms of an Xchange lease run 28 pages."

    "...catering to drivers with bad credit is intentional."

    "At $600 a month or so for many drivers, that's a hefty lease, leading critics to claim that the terms are predatory."

    "Uber also continues to drop its ride prices, making it harder for some drivers to keep up."

    "...leases can run far above the actual value of the car."

    "There's a lot of churn among Uber drivers—in 2013, a Princeton researcher found that 30 percent of drivers who started in the first half of that year had stopped working for Uber a year later—and Xchange is a way to keep new drivers signing up. The company knows those drivers may not stick around."

    "Damascus Durham, 28, got a lease from Xchange in January and picked up a 2016 Chevy Cruze from Team Superstores in Vallejo, California. "I only became an Uber driver for the car," he said. He pays $200 a week.

    He called the program "a scam." "I should be slapping myself," he said. "I've now read the contract."

    There is, however, ONE MAIN BENEFIT to the Uber Xchange program:

    "Uber's lease is more flexible than most subprime leases, the company said. After the first 30 days of the lease, a driver can return the car to Uber with two weeks notice, without any additional fees, apart from the payments they owe and the $250 they paid up front."

    If the driver feels he's in a raw deal and cannot make enough weekly income from Uber to justify the payment, at least there's an option to just return it.

    "Xchange has dealerships reassign cars to other Uber drivers when they get returned. It can be after a few weeks or a few months, and Xchange leases them to drivers with more troubled credit profiles."

    The best way for a Uber driver to get into one of these leases is to find a car that's been reassigned, and hopefully negotiate much better terms than the original driver, given the depreciated value of the car.

    The Xchange program is designed to "churn and burn" the drivers just like a $5k deposit prop shop is designed to "churn and burn" the traders for commission.

    Indeed, the article states the following:

    "There's no other way the model can work profitably for Uber."

    Here are the links to both articles, just for reference:

    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/07/uber-wants-to-disrupt-the-auto-leasing-industry.html

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ase-machine-where-almost-anyone-can-get-a-car
     
  46. Since you always "chat the driver up" regarding pay, the next time you're in an Uber in several US cities, just ask the driver the following question:

    "If you had to pay Uber $140 to $200 from your weekly check to drive this car, would you still say the pay is OK?"
     
  47. Sure. I'll ask them. I've already asked them that basically because most of them had to cough up big bucks to get a new car or semi new car because Uber has to approve your car before you can use it. You can't use a beat up piece of shit. So I have asked all of them, after having paid all that money for the car, is it still worth it. Their answer...yes. Why? Because they had no alternatives. None of these guys turned down jobs at Goldman to drive for Uber. It was either Uber or sit at home and wait for callbacks for months on end earning nothing.

    Let me say this again Joe, in NY drivers pay over a million dollars for a medallion cab. Obviously they don't write a check for that amount so they finance it and guess what....it comes out to several thousand a month.....and they still do it. So yeah, I guess we have our answer. That's how markets work oddly enough.
     
  48. A guy with say a 2010 Ford Focus that's paid off may last longer than a guy with an Uber Xchange new Corolla running a similar shift in the same region, even if both take $4 piker fares while doing a few airport runs. Which driver is more likely to churn and quit?

    The entire article resorts to the fact Uber is facing churn, especially now that ANYONE with a pulse, even if they have little or no credit, can drive for Uber. The article also states that Uber even shifted the burden of financial risk to the BANKS! Maybe we'll see another subprime credit crisis, this time in the car loan business, lol!

    The Uber Xchange program is great for consumers, but not for drivers, unless they find a niche where they can maximize revenues from surge pricing or the bar shift. Besides, there's no requirement to keep the lease for the full 36 months term. Most people can build their credit back within two years of consistent employment. If an Uber driver managed to last that long with the Xchange, then he's better off returning the car and trying to qualify for a better lease. The data isn't out since the program is relatively new.

    It will be interesting to hear the response from the drivers you talk with. My guess is if they had to resort to the $200/weekly hit off their paycheck, they probably would churn just as fast as the Xchange drivers.
     
  49. lol Mav. very funny.
     
  50. I think one of the things you are missing here and it's one of the great things about trading as well, is the flexibility the job offers. It's really impossible to find a job where you can basically set your own hours and work anywhere you want and anytime you want without starting your own business. Just think about that for a minute. I mean theoretically as a trader you have that right except 95% of traders on ET make less money then the avg Uber driver. But isn't that one of the big pluses you hear on this forum for why guys trade, they can work when they want and where they want. Of course the downside to trading is well, it really requires a lot of capital and it's really hard. Uber on the other hand, requires no capital and it's actually really easy. But if I wanted to move to Fargo, ND tomorrow and drive for Uber I could. If I wanted to move to Beverly Hills tomorrow and drive for Uber I could. If I only wanted to work weekends or Wednesday nights, I could. There is a huge premium to having that kind of freedom which is why so many guys try to make trading work. I mean we could all try to go out and start a new business tomorrow but think of the risk that entails. And would you ever make any money? Statistics show show most people don't.

    Uber is not a easy road to riches but when you compare it to trading, it suddenly doesn't look that bad. Of course most people on this forum will say but yeah, I'm going to make billions trading my moving average crossover system in FX and Uber has limited upside. It's great to dream isn't it....
     
  51. It also reflects the general trend in the economy..i.e small business start-up's are declining as fewer people are willing to take on the risk of a physical presence (rent, utilities, insurance, employees, etc, etc...) in such a divergent economy...It's similar to the food truck craze, whereby an entrepreneur can take on a limited risk (granted the mark-up's on food trucks are a symptom of that trend as well)...
     
  52. You make a good point about food trucks. It's all about dialing down risk. And yes, food trucks are very expensive on the margin but overall risk is much lower, very similar to Uber.
     
  53. Except you own the medallion once you've paid it off and can flip it again to someone else at some point. You own d!(k with Uber.

    Also "thanks" to Uber medallions don't cost a million anymore.

    But let's see how much longer Uber can continue to screw its drivers and sustain the model.
     
  54. Ugh.....how many Pakistani's do you think own their medallions free and in the clear? Don't bothering googling it....the answer is zero.
     
  55. I never denied the flexibility of Uber. In fact, I even mentioned that Uber allows the driver to return the car with 2 weeks notice if it didn't work out. Of course you'd have the freedom to drive in Fargo, or Beverly Hills, or wherever. Just as you can take your laptop and trade from a hotel room in Paris, etc.

    The article cited some facts on the Uber Xchange program, and cited whether or not the lease terms are predatory. As you know, with any business there are fixed costs and variable costs. Uber Xchange is charging a hefty fixed cost for the lease.

    Neither of the articles mentions the tax implications of using the standard mileage deduction for business use vs. actual costs. Even if drivers used the standard mileage allowance of .54/cents a mile, they can't use the lease payments as a write off. It's either/or, so the guy who has the 2010 Ford that's paid off has more flexibility as the guy who is in the Uber Xchange paying up to $800/month. Even if they both drive the same routes and log the same miles, the Uber Xchange driver may not sustain long enough and will soon realize he's in a raw deal. Simply stated, his fixed costs are just too high to sustain the lease, and that's what the article suggested as well.

    That's why Uber relies on churn, and knows that there's a high probability the driver will return the lease, which will then be reassigned to the next driver, etc.

    Again, it's a great deal for the consumer, because they will have broader access to Uber and as more drivers compete for the riders where the Xchange has presence of dealers.

    I'm still curious as to the reaction you'll get when you ask the next few Uber drivers you meet on whether or not they would still think the flexibility is worth the money if Uber Xchange deducted $200/week from the paycheck.
     
  56. I'll ask, I promise. The last guy I talked to shelled out big bucks for a new car a year ago and it already has 30k miles on it. He figures if he owns the car for two years, he'll take a 10k hit on the car when he sells it because he wants to move back to NY where he doesn't need to own a car. That's a big hit. But he said he was lucky vs other drivers since he had the credit and savings to buy the new car, most uber drivers don't.
     
  57. Given that Uber has shifted the financial risk to the BANKS (according to the article), I think they will sustain the model as long as there are drivers with limited credit looking for a way to generate any type of revenue stream that beats working at a fast food joint. Since the barrier to entry is low (just the mere $250 deposit), the driver can start earning money almost immediately.

    Here's what can happen: Uber drivers who share ideas on the Uber blogs will eventually figure out the leases don't last very long as former drivers return them. A driver who goes in with limited credit can still get the reassigned lease, perhaps at more favorable terms, since the retail value of the car is now diminished given the depreciation.
     
  58. Yes, it's a big hit. Let's say he does the same 30k the second year. So that's 60k miles on a 2 year old car, so he'll get crushed on depreciation. If his sole purpose to buy it was to drive for Uber, then he has to factor in the $10k hit as a cost of his Uber business.

    If he uses the standard mileage deduction for 2016, then at least he can write off $16,200 against his 1099 from Uber.
     
  59. I took Uber 5 times and here are what the drivers told me:

    Drive #1 & #2 were both retired software engineers. Drove Uber because they retired and bought new cars. So, driving for Uber paid for their new car and only pick up local fares if they were convenient and not venture too far away from home. Both specialized in odd hours like very early in the morning (4-5am) driving locals to the airport.

    Driver #3 was a young engineer, only drove on weekends and used Uber to get pocket money for spending and car payment.

    Driver #4 was in between jobs and used Uber temporarily until he could land another job. Said it did not interfere with job search at all.

    Driver #5 drove a Lexus LS460, worked for a 5-star hotel as a Director of Customer Relationship, he drove for fun and only when he had time, was going some place, like taking wife to shop and waiting for her and had some spare time to do local trips.

    Those might be Uber's secret army giving Uber their flexibility.
     
  60. You nailed it in your post.

    Notice that none of the five drivers mentioned they got a lease through Uber Xchange, which implies none of them are relying on Uber to make their $600 to $800 monthly payment which gets deducted in weekly increments from their Uber checks.

    The key phrases from your post:

    Driver 1 and 2: "...retired software engineers...only picked up local fares..."
    Driver 3: "...young engineer...used Uber to get pocket money..."
    Driver 4: "...used Uber temporarily...did not interfere with job search at all."
    Driver 5: "...drove for fun...only when he had time..."

    Obviously, these five drivers aren't candidates for the Uber Xchange. All five were NOT desperate for money or trying to rely on Uber just to survive, unlike the candidates from Uber Xchange. If they were, then you'd probably have very different responses.
     
  61. Anyone who is in a desperate situation will have to resolve to desperate measures. It's unfortunate but true. Many are on this message board. In that regard, it's not all that different then TST now is it Joe?
     

  62. In earlier posts you claimed "$650 a month is a steal for these Uber drivers" and "the lease program is a good idea."

    Now you're saying it's for people in a "desperate situation" that "have to resolve to desperate measures." I agree that your latest post is more of an accurate assessment of Uber's target market for the Xchange program.

    However, it's not the same for everyone who approaches the TST model. Many of their live traders (according to TST's own admission) are former professional traders who simply wanted to trade OPM or for those who wanted to improve their "edge" by trading in a structured account setting.

    There are those who can afford brand new cars that drive for Uber, just as there are those who can afford their own retail accounts but choose to take a combine through TST instead (or as an additional account, as mentioned by TST's audio interviews).
     
  63. I think the $650 is a steal if they can walk away from the lease if they decide not to drive for Uber anymore. Joe I don't think you realize just how hard it is for some people to get a lease for a car. There are income requirements and credit requirements. Most people can't afford to buy new cars in this situation. Just as most people cannot afford to properly fund a retail trading account and no, 10k is not a properly funded account just as a 5k car is not suitable for Uber. Uber knows their target market is not ex-Goldman employees but rather people who have limited options in life. You need to understand just who these people are. Personally if I drove for Uber and I had a brand new car, I would still rather lease a separate vehicle just for Uber so I don't run my own car into the ground. I really don't understand why you think this is a bad deal. Would it better if they stayed at home and earned no income? Logic tells us if a better opportunity was available, they would take it. Or are you also debating that as well. Honestly I'm not sure what point your trying to make. I agree with you Uber is not a career I would want my kids to shoot for. I don't think it's a good career at all. But neither is flipping burgers at McDees. What do you want these people to do? What can they do?
     
  64. Although I don't agree $650 is a "steal" I DO agree that Uber Xchange makes it easy for those to get out of the lease lease given the return clause with 2 weeks notice.

    "Logic tells us if a better opportunity was available, they would take it."

    Logic says if they take the Uber Xchange lease, they will churn, and Uber Xchange will simply re-lease the car to another driver. The "better opportunity" is to see if they can get into an lease on a car that's already been returned, since that car obviously cannot be sold as new. Thus, the price of the lease should be lower.

    I'm agreeing with the Bloomberg piece that suggests the terms are predatory, but that doesn't mean people won't take the deal if they face limited choices. There's obviously a huge target market, or the banks wouldn't backstop the deal for $1 billion. It's a guaranteed revenue stream for the banks, as long as there are NEW drivers willing to take the deal on the Uber Xchange terms.

    Yes, there are income requirements and credit requirements for sure. The Uber Xchange drivers may have tried to obtain a car through the traditional channels before agreeing to the terms for the Xchange. Eventually, they will realize that Uber is a tough gig with heavy churn.

    We'll soon find out how they're doing since you promised to ask the driver if you happen to come across anyone who leases from the Xchange. :cool:
     
  65. Hertz to rent out its cars to Uber, Lyft drivers
    Hertz will make rental cars that it's shifting out of service available to Uber and Lyft drivers for weekly rental at around $180. The company says it believes that renting cars to the two biggest ride-sharing startups will be more profitable than selling the vehicles. (Bloomberg)
     
  66. Caught a ride with Lyft this morning. Driver said he was an artist during the day and drove 10 to 12 hours per night, 6 nights a week. He drove like a bat out of hell, but was careful, and nice. I can't imagine anyone driving their own car that way. You would be down to the rotors in a couple of weeks.
     
  67. It's good for Hertz, and for consumers of the two ride sharing services. More supply of cars matched with willing drivers paying $180/week equals more competitive fares for consumers.

    Both Uber and Lyft are paving the way for driverless cars. However, as it's been discussed already, these drivers may still opt for the $180/week deal if they're looking for some income, and have limited options. When the driverless technology is safe enough to market to the masses, the ones losing the income stream will be all of the drivers.

    From the article:

    "General Motors Co. took a stake in Lyft and they have said they aim to develop a fleet of self-driving taxis. Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV, which is supplying minivans to Google’s self-driving car program, has started discussions with Uber on a potential partnership on driverless cars, people familiar with the matter said earlier this month."
     
  68. Uber is fighting dozens of lawsuits
    Uber, known for its brash, ultra-competitive culture, is fending off more than 70 lawsuits filed in federal court. So far, Uber has avoided crushing legal losses by shelling out $163 million in settlements. But it has yet to resolve the thorniest question over whether its drivers should be categorized as contractors or employees. (San Jose Mercury News)
     
  69. Those who bought cars from Uber, they ever thought about that after several months they are offered less assignments? Or assignments that no one wants? Can it be that at some point Uber wants drivers to fail? Perhaps near a year's end? Since Uber is screwing drivers on costs, it is like drivers are driving for free? And are the cars being offered from Uber or another company owned by those who own Uber? If Uber has to file bankruptcy, due to lawsuits, would other company that sells cars still be going strong?

    I think we long way from having driverless cars especially taxis, can you imagine former taxis drivers buying jammers to cause accidents or make door locks unable to open, drop people off in Harlem or south side of Chicago at 2am? Transgenders dropped off at Biker's bars.
     
  70. Uber hired investigators who lied to get info
    A secretive firm run by former CIA and NSC officials admitted that one of its unlicensed agents lied and illegally recorded a phone call while investigating an Uber client who is suing the ride company. According to Law360, the Uber user was part of a class action suit against Uber alleging price fixing. (Verge)
     
  71. Uber gets the green light in China
    Uber welcomed the announcement that the world's most populous country has legalized ride companies like the San Francisco-based service and its rival Didi Chuxing. China will provide a legal framework, which willkick inNov. 1, that allows the companies to operate.(New York Times)
     
  72. Uber drivers brood over timeouts
    Uber is reportedly locking drivers out of its system for up to 15 minutes every time they refuse a request to pick up a rider. Drivers generally have been reluctant to pick up passengers via UberPOOL, which operates like a carpool, because ithurts their ratingsand doesn't necessarily pay more.(CNN)
     
  73. Uber soon could be driving an IPO
    In addition to its recent move to sell its China business for $1 billion, Uber is also likely on the verge of watching its revenue growth slow. Because Uber shareholders want to grab the highest price for the company, Uber would be more inclined to make an initial public offering before growthslows too much.(Wall Street Journal)
     
  74. From the article...

    "The pay is not worth it," said Eric Roberts, who has driven for Uber on and off in San Francisco the last two years. "You're constantly running around putting wear and tear on your vehicle for small fares."

    It also mentions another possible piece of evidence that Uber drivers are being treated more like employees rather than independent contractors.

    Uber needs to get that IPO roadshow going soon, there's a lot of suckers who will gladly buy the opening pop after early investors cash in their chips!
     
  75. Uber will test self-driving cars in Pittsburg (with a human backup, just in case, lol!)

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/uber-autonomous-cars-haul-people-125127470.html?ref=gs

    "We've got to be laser-focused on getting this to market, because it's not a side project for us," he said. "This is everything. This is all the marbles for Uber."

    Indeed, once the model becomes the prevailing method of ride sharing, Uber will no longer require drivers and keep the entire stake. This has always been the focus for their business model. The drivers are helping to build the Uber empire, one rider at a time.

    At least those on the Uber Xchange will no longer have to pay the $800/month for their lease on a Chevy Cruze. :)
     
  76. Lyft wanted to sell itself, but couldn't find a buyer
    Lyft tried to sell itself, but has not found a buyer. The San Francisco company hasn't been able to get a willing buyer due to its cost, as it was valued at $5.5 billion, and the challenges of getting profits in the ride-sharing business. With $1.4 billion in the bank, Lyft can afford to remain independent for a bit. (New York Times)
     
  77. Uber's point man on automated driving came from Ford
    If Sherif Marakby is successful managing the transformation of a fleet of 100 Volvo XC90s into self-driving vehicles, it couldput Uber in the leadin the race to commercialize autonomous driving. The former senior Ford engineering executive, who joined Uber in April, knows his way around vehicle architectures, powertrains and electrical systems.(Automotive News)
     
  78. "Lyft is not profitable, said a person briefed on the company’s finances."

    Interesting article. So even with an estimated $2 billion in ride fares and a 20% cut, it can't make money on a $400 million revenue stream. However, if they can last long enough until the driverless cars become a reality, will they be able to offset vehicle and technology costs when they keep the full $2 billion? If GM keeps investing and Lyft goes public, then it can raise more funds to add to their current $1.4 billion cash, and they might just be able to hold out.
     
  79. Forget driverless cars, watch out for the driverless semi, coming soon to a freeway near you. :caution:

    https://amp.businessinsider.com/ube...ferent-company-that-you-thought-it-was-2016-8

    "Uber revealed it had spent $100 million to get into the trucking business with its purchase of Otto, a startup that makes kits to turn traditional trucks into autonomous vehicles."

    "...we are getting in the trucking business," Kalanick told Business Insider. "Part two is that it is a multitrillion-dollar business globally as well. I have always talked about the consumer ground-transport business being a multitrillion-dollar business. Now there's this other one called trucking. It is a challenging, interesting, nuanced business, and it is going to be intense getting into it, but that's exciting to me.
     
  80. This tells us that they are not in taxi-cab business rather in transportation business...
     
  81. The consensus on Seekingalpha is that Uber loses about 7% on every ride, because they started a price war with Lyft. It might be good for the customers, but not good for anyone else. Also, people who saw income taxes of Uber drivers said they made shit...
     
  82. Did you read that thread by Nitro about the feasibility of a peer to peer ride share.... totally cutting out the likes of Uber and Lyft. Thats a damn good idea imo.

    I mentioned that one last night to some folks and one of them thinks there's a startup in San Fran starting to do it. .
     

  83. Yep another startup out of San Fran...are you referring to getaround ? If so the idea has been done before many times, there are many offering this type of service already....its people who have a car that want to rent it out hourly to other drivers...all I can say is Noooo thank you...who would want someone else driving their car for $8 or $12 an hour....in the long run all that wear and tear costs the owner in the end.... Its not worth it...Who wants a stranger driving their car slopping it all up with cat hair and donut crumbs and who knows what the implications are when it comes to insurance even though they say it's covered up to $1,000,000....way to many questions... I'll keep my car parked for me, the only one making out in this scheme is the company and the one renting the car. The owner of the car is the fool if they provide the car out to these types of new economies we have today.
     
  84. No, that wasn't it. Nitro's idea was in effect.... "I need a ride...I'll post it". People are on the site, they see the request, submit a bid, and the person that needs the ride picks who they want to pick em up. Peer ratings would apply. Pretty simple really. The driver keeps 100% of the money.
     
  85. Uber tries to discount prices and provide incentives to customers in each market where they compete with Lyft. You're right, it's good for customers, not for the drivers. Regarding income taxes, you have to consider that if drivers use the IRS standard allowance for mileage deduction (as opposed to actual expenses), it can erase almost ALL of the taxable gains, hence the "shit" income. .

    Take for example, a driver who puts on an average of 3,000 miles a month driving for Uber. At .575/cents/mile for the 2015 year, that's $20,700 annually in deductions for the mileage alone, not including standard deductions and exemptions, etc.

    By the way, IRS reduced it for 2016 down to .54 cents a mile, maybe too many Uber drivers were zeroing out their taxes in 2015. :cool:

    https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/20...tes-for-business-medical-and-moving-announced
     
  86. Well, making $4/hour, yippie!!!

    So basically the whole business model is a bust. The company doesn't make money, the drivers make shit, the competition is screwed, only the customers are happy, temporarily. And stupid VC gives them more and more money... Not to mention in some cities they are illegal...

    I like the soup kitchen analogy. I make a soupchain selling excellent soup for $1. But it cost me $2 each soup. People love my soup. The more restaurants I open the more money I lose. Everybody is losing money (me, competitors) but the people love the cheap but good soup, for a while until it lasts... But bad business ideas can't last forever....
     
  87. I have another business idea. I will make electric cars. First for the rich then using the profits I will make cheaper and more accessable cars. Then I might even throw in solar on the top and some kind of giant battery for the house. I will get lots of government subsidy, and make tons of money for myself....

    Oh wait, that sounds familiar. I have deja vu...
     
  88. No, it's not a bust! The drivers are building an empire as indentured servants, which is what I've already mentioned in this thread. Sure, there are always pockets of opportunity in select cities, or select times such as surge pricing. However, Uber, by its own admission, relies on churn to attract new drivers.

    These are very smart VC's pouring in money to Uber, and they will KEEP pouring in money, by the BILLIONS and BILLIONS, because it's becoming self-evident that eventually the roads will have driverless cars. Once the infrastructure is built worldwide, Uber will take away the 80% it currently gives for the drivers. Imagine the revenue streams once that happens. Yes, there are daunting questions regarding insurance liability, all which will most likely be worked out with government regulations. And yes, both Uber and Lyft have left certain markets where they tried to get exemptions from background checks or where regulations prohibited them. However, that hasn't stopped them from complying with background checks in specific cities like New York, where the revenues justified the costs. And they might comply eventually if they feel it's warranted. Uber expanded its offerings in certain airports where they were banned previously. The recent two that comes to mind are Boston and Phoenix.

    The VC's will make their profits on an eventual IPO, and sell a huge portion on the open to the suckers who will pour in droves to buy the overhyped stock. It may be another 10 year game plan, perhaps longer. However, as long as money keeps pouring in by VC's, Uber will expand the empire. Drivers can bitch and complain all they want on Uber message boards, but they are DISPENSABLE, just like an old razor.
     
  89. [​IMG]
    Google to bring its ride game into Uber's backyard
    Google will launch a ride service in the Bay Area that will eventually be open to all Waze users near San Francisco this fall. It will be different than Uber and Lyft, operating as a way to connect riders with drivers heading in the same direction, at a rate of 54 cents per mile. (Wall Street Journal)
     
  90. "Waze". .... I gotta look that one up. Never heard of it. $0.54/mile! Thats dirt cheap! I'm down. Too bad Uber isn't already publicly traded... I'd short the spit out of it.
     
  91. Judge rejects Uber settlement on rider fees
    A U.S. District Judge ruled that Uber's proposed settlement of $28.5 million was insufficient because Uber made16 times that amount– $448 million – from a controversial Safe Ride Fee. The fee was introduced as a way to cover the costs of background checks as well as vehicle and insurance checks, but consumers complained the checks were not thorough.(Bloomberg)
     
  92. The family car is in free fall
    The sedan is dying, and the usual cure-all prescription - cash on the hood - isn't working. In one of the U.S. auto industry's best years ever, with sales through August 0.5 percent ahead of last year's record pace, demand for midsize cars is at a five-year low. (Automotive News)
     
  93. add in insurance and the uber prices look like bargains for all but the most anal drivers
     
  94. Uber books rides at a staggering rate
    Uber CEO Travis Kalanick said that 40 million monthly riders pay $50 every month for the company's services. This comes out to massive revenue of about $6 billion per quarter, as ride bookings have reportedly jumped every quarter. (Ad Week)
     
  95. Flywheel sues Uber, calls it an illegal monopoly
    Flywheel, the San Francisco taxi app operated by the industry, claims that Uber's strategy involves predatory pricing, backed bybillions in venture capital,with the goal of putting competitors out of business. Flywheel's lawsuit said the city's taxi industry has lost 65 percent of its ridership and 30 percent of its drivers since 2012.(San Jose Mercury News)
     
  96. I suppose more and more cab companies will find themselves in a similar situation in the future.
     
  97. Don't forget that a car which is going to be leased will be used constantly. It means a driver will use it at least 8-10 hours a day.
     
  98. Not sure why folks hate on Uber. Its a great way for a young or struggling trader to pay the bills when learning on his/her own schedule. Heck, $200 per day or night is $200.
     
  99. Uber is cool, used it for the first time recently on a trip to San Francisco - loved it, super fast pick ups, friendly drivers, nice clean vehicles, and much lower rates than cabs. What is there not to like about it?
     
  100. Uber drivers to join protest for higher wages
    Uber drivers said they plan tojoin worker protests,including a strike at the San Francisco International Airport, calling for $15 minimum wage and the right to unionize. Uber drivers in San Francisco earn about $22.50 to $24 an hour, but say they're not left with much after paying for gas and vehicle maintenance.(San Jose Mercury News)
     
  101. Uber drivers taking to the streets - in protest
    Uber driverson Tuesdaywill join fast-food workers, airport employees and home-care aides todemand a $15-per-hourminimum wage. Uber drivers are considered contractors rather than employees, so they aren’t entitled to overtime pay or sick leave. Drivers in some cities say Uber’s aggressive fare cuts make it even harder to get by.(CNN)
     

  102. Boy, folks value security over opportunity--- sad but true, but we do need the slave class.
     
  103. DMV to Uber: Not so fast with the self-driving cars
    Uber wanted to launch its self-driving car service to passengers in its hometown of San Francisco, but California's Department of Motor Vehiclesput the brakeson that rollout. The DMV sent a letter saying that Uber had failed to get the proper autonomous vehicle testing permit.(New York Times)
     
  104. That's a common rate for taxi drivers. In the UK some drivers pay even more for older cars.
     
  105. [​IMG]
    Uber lost $800M in Q3
    Uber lost more than$2.2 billion in the first nine monthsof 2016, including $800 million in the third quarter. The losses can be attributed to the company's decision to leave China earlier this year. The private company generated about $3.7 billion in net revenue in the same nine months.(Bloomberg)
     
  106. Man, that is an incredible burn rate--- doesn't make sense given the nature of the business
     
  107. Who comes up with this shit?

    Valued at over $68,000,000,000?

    ROFL. Someone smoking some funny there.
     
  108. How could they burn so much money? I can't understand it.
     
  109. If only Uber drivers actually ever tried to drive a real cab, like a Yellow Cab, they'd STFU and stop whining. For a real cab, you're looking at ~$100 per day lease, and you have to pay for your own gas. They (Uber peeps) got it good so far. But as a company, Uber is going to get in trouble if they cannot vet their drivers better. Implosion imminent.
     
  110. I keep wondering about this. How does Uber get away with not vetting their drivers extensively?
     
  111. My Spidey-Sense says to get everything you have out of "Uber" and "Lyft". Just avoid them, like bad pizza.
     
  112. Block-chain is going to disrupt the disrupters. Drivers will keep it all. As well they should.
     
  113. Uber hires veteran NASA engineer to develop flying cars
    After years of research into so-called VTOL - vertical takeoff and landing - cars, Mark Moore is leaving the confines of the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration, where he has spent the last 30 years, to join Uber Technologies Inc. Moore is taking on a new role as director of engineering for aviation at the ride-hailing company, working on a flying-car initiative known as Uber Elevate. (Bloomberg)
     
  114. Smart. Feds should do it too.


    Arizona lawmaker pushes for Uber instead of state vehicles
    By BOB CHRISTIE, Associated Press
    3 Hours Ago
    The Associated Press

    PHOENIX (AP) — An Arizona lawmaker has proposed legislation requiring the state to cut its vehicle fleet by 20 percent and to launch a program that could use ride-hailing services like Uber or Lyft or other companies to provide transportation for state workers.

    Rep. Jeff Weninger, R-Chandler, said the state government owns too many vehicles and he wants taxpayer dollars used more efficiently for state employee travel.

    "The amount of vehicles that governments have is astounding," he said in an interview last Tuesday.

    Weninger's House Bill 2440 requires a 20 percent cut in the state car and light truck fleet and the creation of a pilot program using rental cars, fleet management services, ride hailing services, vehicle for hire companies or private-public partnerships.

    The state would be free to choose from those options, which Weninger said would add transportation flexibility and leave room for new or innovative technologies that do not yet exist.

    Weninger said his legislation targets about 13,000 vehicles used by state workers and excludes police cruisers, firetrucks and construction vehicles.

    Weninger previously served on the Chandler City Council and helped champion an effort that led to a 22 percent drop in the city's vehicle costs.

    "We found our fleet was huge and we found that we had people that drove two times a week for a few hours each day, and they had their own car issued to them," Weninger said. "And so we shrunk the fleet and we saved a lot of money."

    Chandler cuts its fleet by 25 percent, from 845 cars, light trucks and SUVs in 2009 to 617 cars now, said Chandler Management Services Director Dawn Lang said. The city saved $1.6 million annually and now spends about $6 million yearly on its fleet.

    Cooperation between city department heads to thoroughly assess vehicle assignments and use was key to the program's success, Lang said.

    "It required everyone to be at the table to share how their employees work," Lang said. "It allowed us to really hone in on where we could cut vehicles."

    The program was being put into place during the Great Recession and the cuts were made when the city was already looking at ways to cut costs.

    The Associated Press asked the state Department of Administration to provide statistics on the state's fleet size, use and costs last Tuesday, but it was unable to provide the information as of close of business Friday.
     
  115. Check out a recent clip of UBER's Kalanick arguing with driver, hilarous.

     

  116. Yes, this WAS, IS and WILL BE the plan for Uber. They jumped the gun in CA as they didn't have the proper DMV permits, which caused them to shift the vehicles to AZ. It seems they are trying to correct that now.

    As I've repeated here, the drivers (i.e. indentured servants) are helping Uber to build its autonomous vehicle empire for a fixed period. Uber's churn rate of drivers probably rivals all of the distributors of MLM companies combined, lol. (Note: I'm not implying that Uber doesn't have any drivers making money, of course some do, just like with MLM, but the churn is horrendous).

    According to Bloomberg, Uber was on track to reap over $5 BILLION in NET revenues for 2016. Uber calculates "NET" revenues as revenues after paying its drivers.

    With fully autonomous vehicles, Uber will no longer have to part with the 80% or so that it pays the drivers. This is why Uber can operate with losses exceeding $800 million in just one quarter, because eventually the drivers WILL BE 86ed, and its net revenues will surge, even with their operating costs to manage the autonomous empire.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...n-third-quarter-on-1-7-billion-in-net-revenue
     
  117. Ya know.... UBER should have a pickup truck service.
    Lots of business moving sh*t around that won't fit in a car.
    Who wants to rent a U-Haul or a Home Depot truck to move a worthless couch out of your ex's house.
    Drivers could probably get double the going rate for Uber Taxi's. At least.
     
  118. Exclusive: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-tech-crime-exclusive-idUSKBN1802U1
    The U.S. Department of Justice has begun a criminal investigation into Uber Technologies Inc's use of a software tool that helped its drivers evade local transportation regulators, two sources familiar with the situation said.

    Uber has acknowledged the software, known as "Greyball," helped it identify and circumvent government officials who were trying to clamp down on Uber in areas where its service had not yet been approved, such as Portland, Oregon.

    The company prohibited the use of Greyball for this purpose shortly after the New York Times revealed its existence in March, saying the program was created to check ride requests to prevent fraud and safeguard drivers. The Times report triggered a barrage of negative publicity for the company.

    The criminal probe could become a significant problem facing the company that is already struggling with an array of recent business and legal issues.

    An Uber spokesman and the Justice Department declined to comment. Uber lawyers said in letters to Portland authorities, which Portland made public in a report last week, that the Greyball technology was used ”exceedingly sparingly” in that city, before the service was approved there in 2015.

    The nature of any potential federal criminal violation, and the likelihood of anyone being charged, is unclear. The investigation is still in its early stages, the sources said.

    Bloomberg news service reported the existence of a federal probe last week, but did not identify it as criminal.

    AGGRESSIVE STARTUP

    Uber received a subpoena from a Northern California grand jury seeking documents concerning how the software tool functioned and where it was deployed, one person familiar with the request said. That indicates a criminal investigation is underway. The second source confirmed that was the case.

    A subpoena from a grand jury is a formal request for documents or testimony concerning a potential crime. It does not, in itself, indicate wrongdoing or mean charges will be brought.

    The ride services company's board has retained an outside law firm, Shearman & Sterling LLP, to conduct its own internal investigation into what transpired, those two sources and a third said.

    A Shearman spokeswoman did not return a message seeking comment.

    Uber, a venture capital-backed firm most recently valued at $68 billion, has long had a reputation as an aggressive startup.

    It has been battered with multiple controversies over the last few months that have raised questions about Chief Executive Travis Kalanick and led him to say he needed "leadership help."

    MINING CREDIT CARD INFO

    The technology at issue in the criminal probe helped Uber tag some users so that they saw a different version of its standard app, the company said in a blog post in March.

    Uber said Greyball obscured the real location of Uber cars in various circumstances, including the possibility of physical threats or merely to test new features.

    The program was part of a broader Uber system, called Violation of Terms of Service, that analyzed credit card, device identification, location data and other factors to predict whether a request for a ride was legitimate, current and former employees said.

    The technology was used partly to prevent fraud and protect drivers from harm, the company blog post said. If a ride request was deemed illegitimate, Uber's app showed bogus information and the requester would not be picked up, the employees told Reuters.

    However, the Greyball technique was also used against suspected local officials who could have been looking to fine drivers, impound cars or otherwise prevent Uber from operating, the employees said.

    The system might have gone farther than suggested by Uber's terms of service for app users. For example, it mined credit card information to see if the owner was affiliated with a credit union used by police and checked social media profiles to assess the likelihood that the person was in law enforcement.

    After the Times exposed the program in March, regulators who had been unable to catch Uber in places where it was banned accused the company of obstructing their inquiries.

    Transportation officials in Portland investigated and reported last week that Uber had used Greyball to evade 16 Portland Bureau of Transportation officials, denying them dozens of rides, in December 2014 before Uber was authorized to operate there.

    The city said it found no evidence that the behavior was repeated when Uber re-entered the market in April 2015.

    Uber said it used the Greyball technology in December 2014, while it was operating without approval, because it was “deeply concerned that its driver-partners would be penalized financially” or otherwise for their driving.

    (Editing by Peter Henderson and Bill Rigby)
     

  119. Especially if a dude was driving the truck and he helped a good looking woman load and off load her stuff.
     
  120. [​IMG]
    Lyft is turning Uber's missteps into an opportunity
    Lyft casts itself as the softer, kinder alternative to Uber. But there’s nothing gentle about the way the country’s second-largest ride-hailing company is capitalizing on its chief rival’s missteps. While Uber has been engulfed in months of turmoil, Lyft has raised an additional $600 million in funding tofuel its expansion.(Los Angeles Times)
     
  121.  
  122. Uber has lost over $2Billion real dollars in the last 24 months... they are just bleeding money. Many of their VC investors have been vocal about their displeasure with the way the company is being run. The thing is that they still have over $4Billion left to burn. Uber could go down as the biggest internet flop of all time. Maybe with the new leadership they can turn it around.
     
  123. :D
    Wonder what the payments are for that sweet ride.
     
  124. Food delivery a bright spot for Uber
    In a seemingly never-ending stream of bad news from ride-sharing unicorn Uber Technologies Inc., there’s actually some good news for a change with a report claiming that UberEats, the companies food delivery service, is not only going well but is increasingly profitable for the company. (SiliconANGLE)
     
  125. ""
     
  126. Uber says it will bring its flying taxis to L.A. in 2020
    In The ride-hailing firm announced Wednesday that L.A. will be one of the first cities served by UberAir, which it says will begin ferrying passengers across the region in electric aircraft in 2020. Aviation manufacturers such as Embraer, Bell Helicopter, Pipistrel, Aurora Flight Sciences, and Mooney Aviation will supply and pilot the aircraft. Uber will operate the software that passengers use to book a trip and take a commission. (L.A. Times)
     
  127. [​IMG]
    Uber CEO announces timing for IPO
    Let the countdown begin: Uber will go public in 2019, CEO Dara Khosrowshahi revealed Thursday at a conference. Khosrowshahi, who in August took over leadership of the scandal-plagued ride-hailing giant after Travis Kalanick resigned in June, had said soon after taking the reins that the IPO would happen during the following 18 to 36 months. Kalanick remains on the company’s board. (Silicon Beat)
     
  128. [​IMG]
    Senate asks Uber why hack of 57M users wasn't disclosed
    Congress wants answers from Uber about why it failed to disclose a massive data breach in October 2016 until last week and how information on 57 million accounts may have been compromised. The leaders of the Senate Commerce and Finance Committees on Monday sent a letter to new Uber Technologies Inc. CEO Dara Khosrowshahi asking about the breach and the San Francisco company's response. (Automotive News)
     
  129. Softbank Puts a Heavy Price on Uber Scandals

    The Softbank-led consortium that intends to invest up to $10 billion in Uber is making clear what it thinks of the scandals that keep coming to light (Waymo alleged yesterday Uber had withheld evidence in their looming court case, while a pilot service in Israel was hit with an injunction ). Its first offer to exiting shareholders reportedly values the company at only $48 billion, nearly one-third below the valuation at its last funding round. The two-stage deal Softbank is conditional on shareholders tendering 14% of the company's stock, which may encourage them to band together and hold out for more. But if this year has proved anything, it's that the world doesn't see Uber and its shareholders the way they see themselves. Fortune
     
  130. Judge tells Uber lawyer: ‘It looks like you covered this up’
    In two days of testimony that ended Wednesday in U.S. District Court in San Francisco, Uber lawyers had to defend what a federal judge has described as an effort to withhold evidence from an intellectual-theft trial. The case pits the ride-hailing company against Waymo, the self-driving car unit of Google’s parent company, Alphabet. The trial was rescheduled for Feb. 5, with jury selection set to begin on Jan. 31. (New York Times)
     
  131. SoftBank succeeds in tender offer for large stake in Uber
    SoftBank Group Corp. won its bid to buy a major stake in Uber Technologies Inc. at a steep discount to the company’s previous valuation in a deal that gives the world’s biggest tech investor sway over the most valuable U.S. startup. Uber investors and employees tendered shares equal to about 20 percent of the company in an offer by a SoftBank-led consortium that values Uber at $48 billion, people familiar with the matter said.(Wall Street Journal)
     
  132. [​IMG]
    Uber sells its Xchange Leasing portfolio to Fair
    As Uber works on trying to find a more profitable path ahead for its transportation-on-demand service, it has sold off one of its units that sat peripherally to that business. Fair, the car leasing startup that announced debt and equity funding of up to $1 billion in October, has acquired the active leasing portfolio of Xchange Leasing, a service Uber first established in 2015 to lease new and nearly new vehicles to drivers.(TechCrunch)
     
  133. Uber partners with JUMP on electric bike share
    Uber is getting into the bike-sharing game. The transportation network is partnering with electric bike-share company JUMP on a limited pilot in San Francisco. Participants in the pilot can pick up JUMP e-bikes using the Uber app and drop them off anywhere within a designated bike zone. (GeekWire)
     
  134. Why male Uber drivers earn more than women
    In theory, working in the gig economy is one-way women can bypass many of the structural biases they face in traditional workplaces. In some gig positions, the employer doesn’t even know the gender of its workers. That’s the case at Uber, where male drivers in the U.S. earn 7 percent more per hour than women, according to a paper from researchers at Uber, Stanford and the University of Chicago.(Quartz)