Over the years people come in here asking about the ultimate trading rig, high end trading rigs, trading rig on a budget, best video cards, computers, etc. etc. So hopefully this can help everyone out and provide a very good baseline of what is REALISTIC and needed for a trading computer vs. what is wanted as "nice to have" or for bragging rights. It's your money.... I'm a big fan of Dell. Always have been. Dell and HP are both great however in my experience HP tends to be slightly more expensive and optioned out a little higher - meaning apples to apples the same HP machine would normally have a slightly faster clock speed CPU and possibly more or slightly faster RAM - but that's about it. I've never been a big fan of homebrew, custom machines. I purchase Dell computers, workstations and servers and highly modify them quite often - but the motherboards and BIOS are all locked - no overclocking, no customization outside stock options like Software RAID, Virtualization settings and Hyperthreading. In my experience a homebrew computer may be faster and quite possibly cheaper but the amount of time required to upkeep, maintain and service them (and if there is a failure good luck) far outweighs a stock "bulge bracket" solution. I've been working on a big desktop virtualization project for a company that recently launched a suite of ETF products. They built out a trading desk for 48 guys (portfolio managers, assistants and managers/supervisors) with existing hardware and then they commissioned a few consultants to engineer a thin/zero client solution to get the computers off the floor and locked up in a secure location. This means I've been playing around for a few weeks with hardware and software trying to break things, blow stuff up, max out CPU, LAN bandwidth, blow up/break video cards, etc. For this solution these are professional Portfolio Managers or Traders who are running HEAVY Excel applications in combination with either Thomson Eikon or Bloomberg Professional. Additionally they are using a proprietary OMS (order management system) which I do not have access to. My goal is to build a stock machine running quad-monitors. Get it set up and 100% functional - then test out the max and average loads so I can spec appropriate Thin Client hardware as well as Server Resources... That's what got me thinking about this thread. All you guys do is talk about these massive "Ultimate Trading Rigs" which are 99.999% of the time overkill by orders of magnitude and in my opinion that money would be much better off deposited into your trading account, not on a box from NewEgg. This is a very well known company with roughly $3 Trillion under management. These are professional traders working for a company with essentially unlimited funds to give their Traders/PMs the resources required to run a solid trading business. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ HARDWARE: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sorry for that long intro - Here is what I started with - A Dell Precision 490 Workstation that I had laying around collecting dust. These things are a dime-a-dozen on fleabay and sell for under $250 shipped all day long (see eBay link below). Normally I'd say buy the base model and upgrade it - but in this case the machine I had was absolutely as shipped from Dell. I provide links below with the Service Tag where you can see it shipped on 3/8/2012 with 8GB of RAM and 2x Xeon x5160 CPUs. These are two (2) dual-core CPUs WITHOUT hyperthreadding running at 3.0ghz clock speed. Nothing special - paired together it's a straight quad-core without HT, similar to a Q9650. This computer had been stripped out so I added 16GB of RAM (because all I had was 2GB sticks) and the video cards I had laying around. For reference a modern i3 CPU with 9GB of DDR3 RAM would be about the same as this base performance. Into the chassis I put what I had - 8x 2GB sticks of DDR2 ECC RAM (Hynix brand)... a 160gb WD 10k RPM Raptor HDD for drive C:\ and an 80gb WD something (super old) drive I had as a D:\ drive just to throw stuff on for ease of formatting the OS as I switched between W7 Pro x64, W8 Pro x64 and W8.1 Pro x64... I also had a Seagate 2TB drive laying around that I thought was dead or having smart errors so I threw that in so I could run SeaTools diagnostics on it - so 3x HDDs in total. Nothing fancy, no SSD's, etc. I then put two fairly low-level NVIDIA cards in there because it's all I had. Normally I insist on exact matching video cards but for these I didn't have any so I used what I had laying around (Nvidia NVS 285 and 295). Normally I'd say that'a a VERY BAD idea to mix & match - and it usually is. In this case there is something funky going on with the Windows 8.1 "windows update" NVIDIA drivers so if you select the Windows Update video drivers it breaks - so this confirms why it's a bad idea to mix and match video cards. Additionally, I'll point out that the PCI slots on a P490 motherboard http://www.redplanettrading.com/images/D/gu083-top-700.jpg) require you to use one x16 (full length) and one x8 (short PCIe) video card - or one quad-card. The NVS 450 is a great card but you can buy the NVS 285/295 for less than $40 shipped vs. the NVS 450 is going to be about $150-$175 shipped (links below). "Dell Precision 490 dual 5160" - $250 or less shipped http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...ll+Precision+490+dual+5160&_sacat=0&_from=R40 "Nvidia NVS 285" - $10 shipped (maybe $20 for the x8) http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...RRENCY=0&_sop=13&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&LH_Complete=1 "Nvidia NVS 295" - $20 shipped - maybe $40 for the x8 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...RRENCY=0&_sop=13&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&LH_Complete=1 The "nvidia nvs 450" is also another GREAT card but it's $150 shipped with the pigtails. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...RRENCY=0&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&LH_Complete=1 So this is the machine/chassis I used. I didn't touch a thing other than plug in the RAM, HDD's and video cards. I didn't even turn it upright - it's still configured to lay on it's side in "desktop" configuration. Again - this is a 2-year old dell box in stock configuration: Dell Service Tag: 924TTF1 http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/product-support/servicetag/924TTF1/configuration?s=BSD I loaded up Windows 8.1 because I'm trying to virtualize on Hyper-V 2012 R2 running RemoteFX. I installed Office 2010 x64 because that's what the client has volume licenses for. So we have a $500 machine with a W8.1 trial and Office 2010 running... Here comes the fun part: I don't have access to the client's OMS so I decided I'd run my E*Trade Power Pro platform in it's place - I figured it would use at least an order of magnitude more system resources than their thin OMS. I also took the liberty of loading up a Thomson Eikon demo and Bloomberg Professional (paid). I also installed iTunes, iCloud, Google Hangouts, Skype, SnagIT (screen capture software), and a few other odds and ends. I provided a photo of the installed programs on the machine. The thing is completely set up as if the PM were to sit down and start trading. Go through the normal routine in the morning... plug in your iPhone... log into Bloomberg/Thomson, your OMS, pull up your many Excel data spreadsheets... then check Zero Hedge, Barstool Sports, Finviz, browse the internet, skype your friends, etc. I found that I was running at or about 8%-15% CPU and 10%-16% RAM. I will say for full disclosure while applications pull up (E*Trade, Thomson or Bloomberg - or the spreadsheets with realtime data feeds) that the CPU does momentarily peg close to 100% - but then it quickly pulls back down to normal. RAM didn't spike nearly as much as I had thought it would and never once exceeded 50% (of the 16GB). This could have been avoided had I staggered the startups - but I just double clicked them all as most of the traders do every morning without thinking. So that was that - I was shocked and very pleasantly surprised. A $500 box could handle orders of magnitude more than that average professional PM/Trader running anything and everything they could ever need. ++++++++++++++++++++ So what would it take to blow this thing up and give the ET'ers a reference point??? ++++++++++++++++++++ I opened everything I possibly could. All at once. On my E*Trade platform it's a Java based application - and has a "streaming CNBC" window - I opened CNBC. I went to Chrome and also opened up Bloomberg TV. Just for fun I launched my favorite radio station and started streaming that online as well (an iHeart Radio broadcast). Next I opened up Bloomberg and Thomson Eikon in addition to my E*Trade platform. I then proceeded to open the E*Trade excel plugin and start pulling 5x tabs of my watch list (a little over 100 symbols)... Same with Bloomberg and Thomson - I pulled the S&P 500 constituent list streaming realtime on Bloomberg and the Russell 1000 streaming realtime on Thomson. Two TV stations One Radio Station Massive Excel pulls Bloomberg Thomson Eikon E*Trade Pro One Note (I use that for work) iTunes and iCloud Skype Google Hangouts Multiple Chrome and FF browser windows with Finviz heatmaps pulling All of this pushing to four monitors so graphics are as max'ed as possible as well.
(Continued) And here are the results: Dell Precision 490 with Windows 8.1 x64 Installed Programs: Device Manager: CPU spike with what is running: So the conclusion is that a $500 Dell machine with dual x5160 CPUs and even 8GB of RAM is plenty. I could not get the RAM to spike (ever) over 50%. Anyone looking to buy/build a crazy computer with anything more than a quad-core or 12-16GB of RAM is just throwing good money after bad in my opinion. There is zero reason for anyone to be running three data platforms and all the garbage I had open just to push the CPU up to a little over 70%. Here is what I had to do to get the idle numbers up to over 90%... Everything you see above PLUS: I opened Windows Media Player and started watching a movie... and I started downloading five consecutive downloads of Windows 8.1 trial from MSFT... And I started 10x VHD >> VHDX conversions (old virtual hard drive to new 2012 VHDX format). Additionally I started optimizing (W8.1 version of disk defrag) the two local disks on the machine as well as a NAS over the network. That got me up to about 92% CPU and use of the machine was not slow or sluggish in any way at all. There are a few downsides with this machine choice. First is noise. Itâs not silent. Itâs not loud by any means but when the CPU is running up over 70% the fans kick in and you have to remember that Dell Precision Workstations consist of many server-grade components inside of a desktop chassis therefore performance is the primary consideration, not noise or comfort. Second, they do draw a considerable amount of power. Nothing crazy but a newer Dell Small Form Factor i3 machine with a Hybrid HDD/SSD and something like a low-profile NVS 420 quad-card would run you about $1,000 (hardware only, not software/OS licenses), draw less power and be far quieter. Size and weight is also a factor. These Precision Workstations are not small by any means and the all-metal chassis and internal racks/slots, etc. are not light. Finally Iâll say that the P490 is OLD. Itâll work great on Windows 8.1 but thatâs about the last generation Iâd use. Itâs rock-solid and stable as can be â but pretty soon a Dell T5400 is going to be much more compatible. Virtualization is spotty on the P490 (Intelâs first generation) so things like Virtual Box or VMware Workstation or free Hyper-V included in Windows 8 donât work with full-features. If you need something with heavy virtualization Iâd pick something newer. Outside noise, weight, power consumption and age Iâd tell everyone trying to build âthe ultimate machineâ to spend $500 wisely and focus on trading. Happy to answer any questions or comments. Hopefully this helps a few people in looking for their machine choices. ***** The only last thing I will say is a word of caution. There were two different versions of Intel chipsets that were run in the Dell P490. The Xeon 5000 series and the Xeon 5100 series. The 5000 series (like an x5060) seems appealing because it was hyper-threaded but itâs OLDER. I would strongly suggest verifying the Service Tag and date of build/ship on Dellâs website prior to purchase and make sure you have something that was shipped in late 2010, 2011 or 2012. OR look at the build and make sure it came originally with Xeon 5100 series CPU, NOT the 5000 series. A Xeon x5080 CPU with dual-core and HT seems like itâs too good to be true but has more issues with drivers, virtualization and a few other things â get the newer 5100 series box.
WinstonTJ imho is the most technical savvy individual on ET. This thread should be pinned to the top of the hardware forum and used as a guide and referenced each time a new "Need a Trading Computer" thread is created"
I guess you haven't tried some custom indicators on platforms like TradeStation and done any backtesting with optimization? Good for you. Try... say, apply the Squeeze indicator (based on Bollinger Bands), crank up the period to say 60 or 80, apply it to a 10-tick chart on AAPL, and say multiply that about 10 times to apply to 10 different symbols with similar volatility and watch how they behave during the opening 5 minutes? The point is: everybody trades differently. I agree with you. Knowing your gears is important. But what works for one may not work for the other. Know your stuff. That's all I can say.
You raise a valid point. Many will contend that while they realize their machine is overkill, they state that they are technology enthusiasts (I am guilty of this). A Prius will get you from A to B, so why spend more? Trading is different. The purpose of trading is to make money. A computer is a tool, you only need the tool to serve it's purpose. One would be better devoting their money to trading than to upgraded computer parts.
@ Bol - Wouldn't that be a backtesting, modeling or optimization box? I don't like to tell traders that they can use their main trading computer to backtest, optimize, develop AND trade - Not the ideal "best practice" IMO. Once you start optimizing and backtesting it's a whole different ball game. When I did the 10x VHD >> VHDX conversions that's a single-threadded conversion so physical core #1 was pegged at 100% and the rest was spill over to the other cores. Once you start getting into running custom multi-threadded applications on your machine you either need me to (and have the budget to have me) "just take care of it" or you can handle it on your own. @Doobs - A lot of guys come on here (ET) looking for an entry "get me started trading" rig/box... They think they need to spend $1500 on a machine to get them started. If you are an enthusiast you should know and/or understand what your programs are enough to realize that you are going overboard just for fun as an enthusiast. With regards to the car comment... I own an SCCA track car and I'd never want to take that out to fetch a gallon of milk - just as the guy driving the Bentley or AMG Merc will probably never use the potential of that vehicle... but it sure does look nice if that's your thing. I personally have a bone stock BMW M3 with 329k miles on it. I'd love to see hit 500k miles. (I do all my own maintenance including clutch & engine work). My point was: Most think that you need to spend $1,200-$1,500 on a machine and then another $1,000+ on monitors to "be any good". I'm saying half of that and you are good. Spend $500 on a machine and $500 on monitors and be up and running for $1,000 and just as competitive as any other trader or portfolio manager out there.
You contradict yourself: wouldn't a box loaded with iTunes and other multi-media garbage along with the hoggy Chrome a BS Box? Other than the consistency of your arguments, I fully agree that aging workstation-class boxes offer tremendous value and are superstable money makers.
Hey Winston, I was wondering if you may check out this setup and tell me if its overkill or sufficient or recommend something different. The following link as my old setup and recommendation. http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcfor...d_help_building_or_purchasing_desktop_mainly/ I m not a computer savy so asked folks on buildmypc subreddit on reddit to aid me. I thought I cross check it with you expertise. If you dont mind can you please review and give me your thoughts. Orignially, I was gonna try you order your Precision 490 but I cannot find any on Ebay.