The 1% (Romney) will pay 1% taxes under Ryan's tax plan

Discussion in 'Politics' started by tmarket, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. Max E.

    Max E.

    And btw its not exactly rocket science to figure out how Romney was able to legally get 100 million into his IRA under Romney's leadership the average rate of return at Bain capital was over 100 hundred percent per year, for 20 years, do the math.

    Even if he started with a tiny sum, when you compound money at that rate of return in an IRA where you dont have to pay taxes for that long it turns into astronomical sums, if you start with 1000 dollars and your average yearly return is 100% in 20 years it turns into a billion dollars, assuming you dont take anything out along the way. There is absolutely nothing illegal about it. And he sure as hell isnt a tax dodger, he is operating under the rules of the law.

    So now what, are you going to call Romney a tax dodger, just because he was able to generate a higher rate of return on his IRA then you were? Let me guess, if you were able to generate the same returns Romney could in his IRA, you would still pay 30% of your income every year to the government just to be fair, wouldnt you?

    You really should learn to think before you automatically assume the guy is doing something shady just because the clowns down at MSNBC tell you something.
     
    #31     Aug 12, 2012
  2. Lucrum

    Lucrum

    not so bigarrow obviously hates successful people, unless of course they're democrats
     
    #32     Aug 12, 2012
  3. Max E.

    Max E.

    Yeah, and the funny thing is that littlearrow would do exactly the same thing if he had the chance to so hes a hypocrite as well.....

    If littlearrow could generate average rates of return of 100% per year on his IRA, and he was able to accumulate 100 million in the IRA, and allow it to accumulate tax free, im really sure that he would donate 30% of his income every year to the government, just to make sure he was paying his fair share...... give me a break....

    Its such a complete load of bullshit, thats the problem with lefties, they want EVERYONE ELSE to pay their fair share
     
    #33     Aug 12, 2012
  4. Back up the numbers you put up max. Show me where bain made 100% per year for 20 years. I am doubtful, I think you are just making up shit again.
    But hey prove me wrong, the proof max, put up or shut up.
     
    #34     Aug 12, 2012
  5. Max E.

    Max E.

    After fees, the return to investors averaged 50-80% average annual returns, before fees it was 113% now i highly doubt he was charging himself fees for managing his own money, but i will be generous with you since you dont seem to be dealing with a full deck......

    So lets say he had 10k in his IRA to start out, split the difference between 50 and 80% and say his average annual rate was 65% if he started out with 10k it turns into 337 million dollars over 20 years assuming he added 2000 dollars to the IRA ever year.....

    Without fees, the average rate of return Romney generated was 113%, i doubt he was charging fees to himself, but i have been more than fair with the numbers here.

    Looks like you got owned again hey littlearrow? For a guy whose always bragging about his high IQ, you sure dont seem to be all that intelligent....


    PROSPECTUS: BAIN CAPITAL VS. OBAMA, INC.
    By: John Hayward
    1/11/2012 10:44 AM

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    Investors have been hearing a lot about two major organizations lately, Bain Capital and Obama, Inc. A former employee of Bain, Willard Mitt Romney, is looking to take over Obama, Inc. His experience at Bain Capital has become a highly controversial item on his resume. It therefore seems prudent to compare the records of the two organizations in some key areas:

    Financial performance. Bain Capital has grown considerably, both during and after Romney’s tenure. As the Wall Street Journal recalls, it began with a $37 million trust fund in 1984, and manages $66 billion today. Its investors include “college endowments and public pension funds that have increased their investments in private equity to get larger returns than stocks and bonds provide. The people who benefit from those returns thus include average workers.”

    An earlier Journal analysis found that Bain produced 50 to 80 percent annual gains for investors during the Romney era, which “experts said was among the best track records for buyout firms in that era.” Matthew Rees of the American Enterprise Institute published an even more glowing assessment of Romney’s performance in 2006, praising his willingness to “pursue – and analyze – data that others wouldn’t bother to chase down”:

    During the 14 years Romney headed Bain Capital, the firm’s average annual internal rate of return on realized investments was a staggering 113 percent. At that growth rate, a hypothetical $1,000 investment would grow to $39.6 million before fees. Few, if any, VC firms have ever matched Bain Capital’s performance under Mitt Romney.

    Although the intention here is to focus on Bain Capital, it should be noted that some of Romney’s management efforts outside the company have enjoyed rather less spectacular results. Strangely enough, no one seems interested in criticizing him for those efforts any more, even though they are more immediately relevant to the new position he wishes to secure.

    None of those dismaying results measure up to the catastrophic failure of Obama, Inc. Its budget is… pardon me, let me back that up a bit. It doesn’t have a budget, and has not had one for nearly 1000 days. It spends over a trillion dollars more than it takes in, every single year. That’s an annual loss of over 30 percent! It finances these losses by borrowing absolutely gigantic amounts of money. This year, its borrowing actually exceeded the total output of every single corporation in the United States. Its total debt is now over eight times its annual income.

    To be sure, these conditions were developing long before the current management team moved in, but they have made the situation dramatically worse by every objective measure. Debt is up, spending is up, and the transparency of operations has declined radically. The CEO routinely flaunts long-standing company policies to pursue his agenda. If Obama, Inc. were subjected to even the most cursory financial audit – far simpler than what Bain Capital is routinely expected to face – the entire management team would be heavily fined, and probably imprisoned.

    Operational performance. Here we come to the meat of the criticism lodged against Romney. Not all of the operations taken over by Bain Capital – which is involved in both start-ups and buyouts, although the buyouts are a much larger portion of its business – have fared terribly well.

    To be sure, Romney enjoyed some fantastic successes. One of his start-ups, Staples, is now the largest office products company in the world, creating over 90,000 jobs. On the other hand, four of the ten most profitable Bain acquisitions later ended up in bankruptcy. Then again, some of Bain’s bankrupt companies emerged from reorganization successfully.

    When contemplating Bain’s operation record, investors should keep in mind that it was deliberately searching for troubled companies to buy. That was its business model – buy low, improve, sell high. Seek out risk in the hope of reward. That is almost everyone’s business model, really, but the amount of risk accepted, and the methods used to develop profit, differ wildly from one venture to another.

    The Wall Street Journal pored over reams of data and concluded that the five-year bankruptcy rate for “bankruptcies and closures occurring by the end of the fifth year after Bain first invested” was 12 percent. Is that good or bad, considering that most of these companies were in bad shape when Bain got involved?

    By contrast, the operational performance of Obama, Inc. is an absolute and unmitigated disaster. $500 million investments have routinely vanished into disastrous bankruptcy. Nearly every company Obama, Inc. touched is a failure. Its most highly touted “success,” General Motors, lost investors a grand total of $38.6 billion on an (ahem) “investment” of $60 billion. Hundreds of millions in additional funding were pumped into this operation to produce a toy electric car purchased primarily by people with six-figure incomes, which had to be recalled because it had a tendency to burst into flames.

    The average cost of each job created by its highly touted “green energy” initiatives is between four and five million dollars per job. Some specific “investments” ended up spending $20 million per job created.

    Investment prospects. Keep in mind that only investment in Bain Capital is optional. You are already an investor in Obama, Inc. You cannot recover your losses, or separate your portfolio from the organization. Consequently, the management is not much concerned what investors think of its activities, and is attempting to use force to secure further investments to fund additional projects. Obama Inc. is not even slightly concerned with its gigantic operational losses or astonishing levels of debt, and in fact the management will become very angry if these topics are brought up by shareholders.

    If you have your own company, and are considering a partnership with Bain Capital, you should bear in mind that they might interfere in your operations and require the termination of some employees. Obama, Inc. already considers itself a partner in every business in America, and has driven nearly two million people out of the workforce since the current CEO took over. The total unemployment rate, celebrated for dipping slightly from 8.7 to 8.5 percent last month, would currently be 11.6 percent if the workforce was the same size as in 2009. That is the highest unemployment rate in 70 years.

    In summary, investors are free to tell Bain Capital to get lost if they don’t like what it’s doing. Few of them appear to have done so, but the constant threat seems to have influenced its behavior considerably, along with the outlook of former employee Mitt Romney. The man Romney would like to replace has never held a job he could be fired from, or run an enterprise that could “fail,” and this seems to have influenced his outlook, too.
     
    #35     Aug 12, 2012
  6. 113% for 14 yrs ,holy crap those are some (Worldclass trading) outstanding returns.

    I think I'd be quite happy with 20% of that rate.
     
    #36     Aug 12, 2012
  7. Mercor

    Mercor

    If that person is making 15K a year from muni's then they pay zero taxes. If the 15k is from the stock market they pay 15%.
    If it is earned from wages then they pay income taxes.

    Romney also earned 300k in wages. He payed 35% on that amount
     
    #37     Aug 12, 2012