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Scalping in USA

  1. Hello! I`m scalper in Russian Futures Exchange and I`m intrerested in scalping in CME. I don`t know very much about features of scalping in America, and I don`t even know, if this strategy work in CME. Here, in Russia, we have very good conditions for scalpers (succesful scalpers make 10,000-20,000$ a month and more). So, surely, I want to try scalping in more liquid markets, and have some questions for CME scalpers (I hope here are scalpers =)). Ask, please, if you can:
    1. How many deals do you make a day? In Russian RTS Index Futures I make 700-800 deals a day on average, can I trade just as aggresively in CME, or it will be not effectively?
    2. How much money can make scalpers in CME? Do you know scalpers, who make more than 500K a year?
    3. Which futures do you use for scalping?
    Thanks and sorry for my English =)).
     
  2. IF doing well in Russia, stay there. It is extremely hard to repeat that in western liquid exchanges. There are lots of people trying and failing, and a few who succeed on a longterm basis
     
  3. do you scalp any of these names ?

    -RAO UES, Norilsk Nickel, LUKOil, MTS, Rostelecom, Surgutneftegaz, Rosneft and Gazprom -
     
  4. I scalped RAO UES and Gazprom earlier, but now I use only futures on RTS Index.
     
  5. Well, apart of good contitions for scalping, here are "lots of people trying and falling" too. I just think, that if I can scalp successfully in one market, I will be able to scalp just as successfully in the other.
     
  6. I expect index you trade to be a volatile one considering it being very much effected by economic and political instabilities over in Russia (in comparison to the West), so if your style of trading is geared towards a more volatile p/a then I would consider German DAX via Eurex, also Russell, but I do not trade it personally.
     
  7. No, our index isn`t very volatile. I compared volatility of DAX, S&P and our index RTS and found no difference. About DAX.. This seems to be the best variant, but I would like to know more about this futures. Can somebody tell about scalping FDAX? I would be grateful for any information.
     
  8. Hello Dirk,

    give us some insight about RTS Index. Volatility, liquidity, broker you´re using, technical reliability...and very important :

    any rectrictions concerning foreign entities to trade and convert currencies....taxes, commission structures and other important items of general interest etc. ...

    Thanx in advance ! :)
     
  9. Hi Dirk,

    I trade the DAX. Scalping is usually referred to going to few ticks, and with 700 trades per day, I guess this is exactly what you do on rts. Ask any questions about DAX and I can answer them to the best of my knowledge.

    I take plenty of trades during DAX first 2-3 hours. It is a great contract to trade, volatile and liquid enough. And at €25 per point (2 ticks in a point), you can make or loose of course nice $.

    My trade lasts from seconds to few minutes. Sometimes I would stay in for longer but only during big moves into my trade direction.

    Regards,
    redduke

    PS I did not realize that RTS has futures. Pretty cool.
     
  10. Tick is 5 points. One tick costs 0,1 USD, and 1 contract costs ~4500 USD or ~225000 points (today`s last trade). Average day volume is 350000-400000 contracts. My day volume is nearly 5000 contracts, size 15 contracts, average day profit is 500-600$ after commisions. Comission is ~0,1$ per round for 1 contract.
    Well, the main restriction is language =). It will be hard to trade in russian exchanges if you don`t russian language. Taxes are 30% for non-residents and 13% for residents. Apart of this, I don`t see any restrictions.
     
  11. Well, answer some questions if you can, please:
    1. What size do you trade? And, how do you think, what is max size for effective scalping on DAX?
    2. What is your average day profit? (Sorry if this is inconvenient question)
    3. How long do you hold your position on average? I hold 20-30 seconds on average, max time in position 2-3 minutes.
     
  12. 1. Anywhere from 1 to max of 5 contracts. Up to 5 contracts during active hours not much slipage. Some people traded up to 10 contract at times with no slipage.
    2. I am aiming at 10 points on average, but it is by no means a set goal. I will take whatever I can get. The only things that I have set in stone is max loss for the day.
    3. My hold time could be from seconds to minutes and even longer. Usually the trades that last 10-20 seconds are the ones which did not go into my direction, and I get out plus/minus few ticks. The ones that do move in my direction, I keep as long the the price action tells me.

    Regards,
    redduke

    PS. dax ochen klassnij kontrakt, no besposhandnij esli ne ostorojen.
     
  13. I just want to mention that foreigns(that is non-Russian residents), actually don't have to pay such huge tax(espicially if they don't like it much :). For example they can open account not at Russian broker directly, but in it's subsidary in offshore.
     
  14. Very interesting, what's the daily range like? So they changed the law, because I believe before only Russian residents/citizens were allowed to speculate on RTS, correct?
     
  15. Greetings to everybody, I'm also russian scalper who is interested in scalping DAX. Can anyone answer - is there any trading terminal which allows demo trading with real quotes? Just to take a look what is it all about.
    And another question - where can I find some screenshots of scalpers' workspaces, who scalp DAX or ES
    Thanks in advance
     
  16. Go to ninjatrader.com to download software. It is free for charting and demo trading. Then go ampfutures.com and apply for demo feed (zen-zire). This feed is identical to live one. It will give you variety of intruments (es, er..) including dax. The only issue with eurex products on this feed is that time and sales and thus volume are not reported. But if you use time based or tick based charts it is fine. It also gives you market depth (5 lvels on bid and 5 on ask).

    Regards,
    redduke
     
  17. Dirk


    Here, in Russia, we have very good conditions for scalpers (succesful scalpers make 10,000-20,000$ a month and more)
    ###########################


    Where ? and Who have this result ?

    Author disscused issue with most of the leader's in RTS contest

    http://www.rts.ru/main/investor/

    1. Only 3 top in RTS contest performed
    1000% -2000% in quartal

    2. Commission calculated not in time of transaction.True result for 1 and 3 is
    some 2 time lower

    3. 3 -Kostimus performed from approx 1800$
    to 20000$ in quartal
    payed some 8000$+1700$ commission

    4. Second competitor performed 20.5 time in quartal with options .
    It was true world class in result and tactic
    (if he not have offset account's)
    from 11000$ to 230000$
    in one quartal. But he have had great luck
    (Medwedew nomination to President,snsh
    have had OTM options on Gazprom)

    5. 1 and 3 "nachprod" and "costimus"
    performed scalping ,but as stated before
    they's true perfomance some 100%
    per month in quartal on start capital 1800$
    (if calculate commissions in time of operations)

    6. Winner of 2006 contest noxer crashed
    in 2007 ,as multiplied start capital .

    7. Non resident must pay 30%tax ,more as resident .


    summary -it is definitly promoution junk
    scalping in Russian exchange for non resident
    and in most of case'S for resident's alsov
    must to be placed near exchange ,have top connection and advantage in speed
    against competitiors,which are palced not
    in Moscow and have worster connection

    . It is alsov junk scalping on CME,CBOT
    if operator not have place on exchange (as Schwartz) and realted speed advantage .

    Intraday top performance possible ,but for scalping not observed any relevant information for top performance on CME/ECBOT


    Promoutional ideja of scalping is simple

    1.Make broker lucky (pay commission)
    2.Make exchange lucky
    3. Buy soft (price/volume analysis,data feed
    -some 1500$ per month)
    4. Buy connection
    5. To have difficulty by conflict with accounting ,pay attorney &

    You respectfully ...
     
  18. Hi Ssss,

    Have you ever placed a live trade at CME or eurex? I trade eurex product and my execution is about 500 mili second, many time it is faster then this. Yes, whoever has the server at eurex exchange building will probably execute in 50 mili second, but it is fine with me, I still get my fill where I want it most of the time. I trade intra day with high frequency, though I do not scalp for 1-2 ticks, which would be a problem for anyone no matter where they are located and which hardware they have. It is totally doable, and this is not a promotion junk.

    I live in New York and trade via 30mbps cable connection with dsl as a backup (both will cost you about $70 per month). Now as far as expensive software, there are good very reasonable options. NinjaTrader is free for charting and demo trading, and will only cost you $50 per month for live trading. Zen-fire or TT feeds for ninja are free and have very fast execution. So here you go, no need to spend $ if you can not afford right now on expensive software.


    Regards,
    redduke
     
  19. I trade intra day with high frequency, though I do not scalp for 1-2 ticks, which would be a problem for anyone no matter where they are located and which hardware they have. It is totally doable, and this is not a promotion junk.

    Question was about scalping -see thread name
    not about intraday !

    Author(was 1 by marketzar with intraday tactic) stated that intraday possible
    (pay attention to author message above)


    author as example can going to Frankfurt ,
    meet a room and very fast connection
    to EUREX .
    In this case ,if scalping would used ,for
    author would advantage against another operator which used scalping from NY location

    but it is not any reason trade today from Germany as tax is 50%

    If trader true successfull long-term and developed tactic ,which is not critical to time delay 100 millisec -300 millisec, must
    found one person company in Monaco and pay "0" tax

    ###########################





    I live in New York and trade via 30mbps cable connection with dsl as a backup (both will cost you about $70 per month).


    It is retail junk. true speedy connection
    from CME direct for operator which located 100 metr from CME server would priced .
    LIFFE this art of connection was 1.500-5000 $



    Now as far as expensive software, there are good very reasonable options. NinjaTrader is free for charting and demo trading, and will only cost you $50 per month for live trading.
    #############

    author tested some 15 platforms for future .
    without charge infinity at is the best

    But it is retail ! Xtrader pro give delay
    0 millisec by datafeed against 200 millisec
    by Xtrader

    NINJA used some technology from CTS t4 ,which author more liked .This need not downloading of 40 mb (source of instability )

    #####################

    Zen-fire or TT feeds for ninja are free and have very fast execution. So here you go, no need to spend $ if you can not afford right now on expensive software.

    It is all retail ,it is not for scalping !

    Scalper can be successfully ,if have multiple
    advantage's as Martin Schwartz ,which have had place on exchange(!)
    ######################

    and used scalping
    in situation ,where was reason ,ut not in each case .


    Best wish ....
     
  20. P.S.

    From real -time contests' ,where author participated in USA (marketzar.com)
    and in Germany (trader2005-2007)
    no one winning result was performed with
    scalping .

    Intraday yes...

    You must not have any doubt ,that leading group whiich won price money in this art of conterst's have alsov multiple real money accounts ...

    And tactic ,which used to win contest alsov used in real moeny contest , only risk decreased some 5-20 time#s (position value in % from capital )


    Your respectfully ....
     
  21. milstar.
    u nas k tebe prosba. ne pishi v etoi vetke, tvoe mnenie mi znaem, i hotim ponyat drugoe, bez obid, ok
     
  22. Ssss,

    Please define scalping. In my book scalping is going for 1-3 ticks, and it originally comes from pits where insiders where exploiting bid/ask differences.

    It would not matter what your speed or hardware is if you try to scalp dax for 1-2 ticks, unless you have algo trading you would loose. There of course could be an exception to this, but I have not met anyone.

    The retail staff (platforms, feeds internet connections) these day are very good even for high frequence intra day trading. You will not get a better fill via t1 over cable boost (30mbps).

    I currently trade 1 product only which is dax, and the set ups that I have discussed work great.

    Regards,
    redduke
     
  23. nachprod




    milstar.
    u nas k tebe prosba. ne pishi v etoi vetke, tvoe mnenie mi znaem, i hotim ponyat drugoe, bez obid, ok
    ###############################


    Winner of contest in Russia gave author recommendation not to write in this thread .

    Suspect ,that they(RTS and winner's) are interessed win new clients thorugh promoution's . Without new clients old winner can not exist ,as he have multiple advantage's and new player's not .


    This praxis essentialy equal as in USA or in Germany...
    Russian (Moscow )version

    Operators which are placed near exchange and have best connections together with broker's and exchange are interessed promoute scalping .

    About winner of contest can say ,that he adapted local conditions(that is full correct from author point of view )
    and performed top result some 21 -time's in quartal
    on capital 1800$ .Sorry ,but if calculate this % with most used
    USA methodology (commission in time as operation performed ,not to end of the day) ,that result would some 2 time
    lower...

    Winner won on 1800$ approx 36000$ in quartal and payed more as 10000$ commission (precise knew commission only from 3 performer -was near 10000$)

    Each broker interessed to have clients ,which payed 3000$
    commission per month .
     
  24. Redduke

    By each calculation take row of 1000 not 30


    Ken Uston group have developed advantage of 0.5-1%
    in multi-mln $

    Mutilple books stated -"...I/We have 60-80% winning operation"
    That can be
    1.Lies
    2. Only short row of operations

    Take row of 1000 operations with enz7

    bid 2030.50- ask 2030.75

    If you buy/sell you loss spread and loss 4$ for R/T
    for retail

    Which will you catch by row of 1000 ,without have place on exchange ?
    Tick ,two tick ?

    How great must be your advantage in this case
    (-spread -commission for R/T for retail)

    80-90% ,Do true mean that any operator by retail have /had this advantage ?

    You can calculate ...







    RedDuke


    Registered: Feb 2005
    Posts: 1023


    12-18-07 05:23 PM

    Ssss,

    Please define scalping. In my book scalping is going for 1-3 ticks, and it originally comes from pits where insiders where exploiting bid/ask differences.

    It would not matter what your speed or hardware is if you try to scalp dax for 1-2 ticks, unless you have algo trading you would loose. There of course could be an exception to this, but I have not met anyone.

    The retail staff (platforms, feeds internet connections) these day are very good even for high frequence intra day trading. You will not get a better fill via t1 over cable boost (30mbps).

    I currently trade 1 product only which is dax, and the set ups that I have discussed work great.

    Regards,
    redduke
     
  25. RedDuke wrote -

    The retail staff (platforms, feeds internet connections) these day are very good even for high frequence intra day trading. You will not get a better fill via t1 over cable boost (30mbps).

    That is essentialy false . Connection from Eurex is 128-256 k
    in most of the case`s(exploit side www.eurex.com)
    Only market-maker have better

    If your local connection to your provider in USA is 30 mbps ,it
    would play not a role ...
     
  26. Exactly my point. Faster more expensive feeds will not provide better execution. But I think we both agree that aiming for few ticks is extremly difficult to do on retail level, but if trade horizon is increased a bit, high frequency inter day trading totally doable.


     
  27. 1.Blend of halp-points,points,two points ,4-5 points
    20-50 operations per day .

    Possible to win day trading contest by marketzar.com
    you can registr and see results by each winner .

    2. If you placed 100 metr near exchange and lease line
    1.55mbit-10 mbit direct to exchange for 1500-5000$
    (price list LIFFE) -yes ,you would have some speed advantage's

    Illustrative example

    To have 530 winning from 1000 against 510 from 1000 from operator which placed 1000km and used standart ISP

    this advantage by high intensity ,long-term would decisive ...
     
  28. Very good post ImO
     
  29. Thank you very much for your info. Could you please answer the following questions:
    1. How many trades do you do per day?
    2. What time of the day do you prefer for trading? What do you think abount traiding during US session (after german stock market is closed, dax futures is still trading until US session ends).
    3. Do you know successful scalpers? How much do they earn per day (or month) average?
    4. What can you say about the interview with Paul Redmond at www.traderdaily.com. Paul says that he earns $15k average per day on fdax.
    Your information will be highly appreciated.
     
  30. Hi Maxsit,

    1) It varies, depending on current day volume, but it is around 15-20, sometimes less or more.
    2) I only trade first 2-3 hours after dax opens (1 st before cash opens not including). US morning session provides great opportunities since markets overlap.
    3) I do not know any succssful scalpers who go for 2-3 ticks. I have heard some do it successfuly via algo trading utilizing market depth. I havily use MD myself. If interested read this thread:
    http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103293
    4) I tried searching for interviews, but the site requires registration to view them. Please post them here if you can.

    Regards,
    redduke
     
  31. I think if a person trades 50-100 times a day and consistently making money then he is a floor trader and owns a seat on an exchange.
    I doubt you can do this electronically in a liquid market.
     
  32. You can find logins for many sites (including traders daily) that require registration here

    http://www.bugmenot.com/
     
  33. Of course it's possible. Look at the DAX - volatile, 13 hour trading session, cheap to trade (compared to any of eminis ), bid/ask spread typically 1 tick. There are ample opportunities to find 50 trades in a session.

    Whether many people can successfully do it is another issue entirely.
     
  34. Then why do people still pay millions of dollars buying a seat, screaming and pushing one another each day?
    Wouldn't they feel more comfortale in a home office drinking a coffee and pushing buy/sell buttons?
     
  35. There is no pit trading on DAX - all electronic now.
     
  36. FDAX ImE is an easier future to trade compared to ES. Even though FDAX is more volatile, its' oscillations offer ranges that are very lucrative considering spread, most of the time an average oscillation cycle will offer x30 the spread, that is an excellent reoccurring opportunity in comparison to ES where you really have to gun for an intraday swing to make it worthwhile. To this day I still struggle with ES, it's like an untamed horse that just keeps on kicking you in the nuts. FDAX is at its best whenever price has been over extended and is showing weakness - BANG!!!
     
  37. Spot on. It amazes me that so few people can see this and become obsessed with ES.

    And thanks for your (and ASusilovic's) journal. Very informative.
     
  38. No problem, quite different styles, mine is quite primitive, but seems to work out OK in the end.
     
  39. Duke, thanks for the info! I think I shouldn't publish the interview here due to copyright issues. Please pm me your mail and I'll send it to you.
     
  40. Scalping is a trading style specializing in taking profits on small price changes, generally soon after a trade has been entered and has become profitable.
    It requires a trader to have a strict exit strategy because one large loss could eliminate the many small gains that the trader has worked to obtain.
    Having the right tools such as a live feed, a direct-access broker and the stamina to place many trades is required for this strategy to be successful.

    Scalping is based on an assumption that most futures contracts will complete the first stage of a movement
    (a contract will move in the desired direction for a brief time but where it goes from there is uncertain);
    some of the contracts will cease to advance and others will continue. A scalper intends to take as many small profits as possible,
    not allowing them to evaporate. Such an approach is the opposite of the "let your profits run" mindset,
    which attempts to optimize positive trading results by increasing the size of winning trades while letting others reverse.
    Scalping achieves results by increasing the number of winners and sacrificing the size of the wins.
    It's not uncommon for a trader of a longer time frame to achieve positive results by winning only half or even less of his or her trades -
    it's just that the wins are much bigger than the losses. A successful scalper, however,
    will have a much higher ratio of winning trades versus losing ones while keeping profits roughly equal or slightly bigger than losses.

    The main premises of scalping are:

    Lessened exposure limits risk - A brief exposure to the market diminishes the probability of running into an adverse event.
    Smaller moves are easier to obtain - A bigger imbalance of supply and demand is needed to warrant bigger price changes.
    It is easier for a contract to make a 5 tick move than it is to make a 50 tick move.
    Smaller moves are more frequent than larger ones - Even during relatively quiet markets there are many small movements that a scalper can exploit.
    Scalping can be adopted as a primary or supplementary style of trading.

    Primary Style:

    A pure scalper will make a number of trades a day, between five and 10 to hundreds.
    A scalper will mostly utilize one-minute charts since the time frame is small and he or she needs to see the setups
    as they shape up as close to real time as possible. Automatic instant execution of orders is crucial to a scalper,
    so a direct-access broker is the favored weapon of choice.

    scalping can be seen as a kind of method of risk management.
    Basically any trade can be turned into a scalp by taking a profit near the 1:1 risk/reward ratio.
    This means that the size of profit taken equals the size of a stop dictated by the setup. If, for instance,
    a trader enters his position for a scalp trade at 800 with an initial stop at 795,
    then the risk is 5 ticks; this means a 1:1 risk/reward ratio will be reached at 805.

    Scalp trades can be executed on both long and short sides. They can be done on breakouts or in range-bound trading.
    Many traditional chart formations, such as M and W formations can be used for scalping.
    The same can be said about technical indicators if a trader bases decisions on them.

    A trader enters a position on any setup or signal from his system,
    and closes the position as soon as the first exit signal is generated near the 1:1 risk/reward ratio

    Conclusion:

    Scalping can be very profitable for traders who decide to use it as a primary strategy or even those who use it to supplement other types of trading.
    Adhering to the strict exit strategy is the key to making small profits compound into large gains.
    The brief amount of market exposure and the frequency of small moves are key attributes that are the reasons why this strategy is popular among many types of traders.
     
  41. Remind me again on the trading hours of the DAX? Eastern Time Zone

    Thanks
     
  42. You can see it at: http://www.eurexchange.com
     
  43. Then why do people still pay millions of dollars buying a seat, screaming and pushing one another each day?
    Wouldn't they feel more comfortale in a home office drinking a coffee and pushing buy/sell buttons?

    1. Yes ,to buy place on exchange win advantage in speed and
    commissions. clear best way buy place cheap and sell high ...

    Martin (Buzzy) Schwartz result was possible under conditions
    that he have palce on exchange .He performed in old price's
    from 70000$ until 2.1 mln $ (modern PPE relation 2.5-3 multiple)
    in 3 years .

    2. 20-40 operations per day that is high intensity intraday trading .

    Scalping is some 500-1000 operations per day. See result
    of leaders by contest in Russia .1 and 3 performed 500-1000
    operations each day in quartal .

    Was made by 3-d prize winner from 1800$ 19000 $ in quartal
    and payed 9600$ commissions

    It is possbile only through specific russian conditions. On CME
    that can not be performed without place on exchange .

    3. All recommendations about scalping in article posted
    above ,suspect to be not another as promoutional junk .
    ---------
    Was stated above

    Terry Hesticles
    Registered: Dec 2007
    Posts: 4

    ... If, for instance,
    a trader enters his position for a scalp trade at 800 with an initial stop at 795,
    then the risk is 5 ticks; this means a 1:1 risk/reward ratio will be reached at 805.
    ###################################
    800 it is possible er . Russell2000 E-mini .in this case
    it would 5 point(!) not five tick...

    By intraday liquidation margin 500 $ that would 500$
    profit or loss on 1000$ initial margin .It is not scalping





    Best wish ....
     
  44. You do understand the concept of an example right?
     
  45. It opens at 2 am EST. But first hour usually has not much action since cash opens 1 hour later. I start trading it at 3:01 or 3:02am.
     
  46. ...You do understand the concept of an example right?


    ? - This is promoutional junk .


    author is prized by USA contest www.marketzar.com
    1 place with gold ,second with gold and ert (in Germany alsov
    ,but this is another story )


    P.S. For russian reader's - not forget Gentlemen ,elittetrader
    essentialy full with all kind of propaganda (religios,sekten,promoutional junk &)

    to be carefully , Caveat emptor ! (Let is buyer beware ...)
     
  47. Hi Ssss,

    Why do you constantly use Martin Shwartz as example in your posts?

    Yes, he did start as a floor member of Amex in 1979, however by mid 80s, he was trading S&P futures from New York over the phone, and his style was not scalping.

    redduke
     
  48. redduke


    Please read article on elitetrader about Martin Schwartz.

    After multiple years trading loss ,which was financed with he's work as analytic ,Martin Schwartz buyed place on exchange for
    for most (some 50%) of the money which he have had


    Schwartz,www.markdcook.com ,mark minervini -
    http://minerviniprivateaccess.com/ ,J.Simonis
    from rentec ,Ken Uston & co

    from author point of view relevant person's
     
  49. Hi Terry Hesticles,

    While your post contains a lot of info, there is really not much that can be ralated to scalping aside from risk/reward and fequency of trades. It sounds like some educational material. Trust me in real live scalpers do not use 1 min charts, it is ancient history for them. Scalping these days heavily ralies on immediate price action, market depth games and times & sales. Also, bigger plyers like Paul Rotter (flipper) play all kind of games to trick peoples into trades via fake # of large bids and offers.

    By the way scalping was originated in pits where at the same time the same instrument could have been traded at different prices. Also front running helped to make lots of ticks.

    Regards,
    redduke
     
  50. If you read Martin's own book "Pit Bull", it is all there. He was not a scalper.
     
  51. One should not forget that leasing a seat on an exchange and not having one is like wearing a cheap suit bought at a local market or an exclusive boutique over at Knightsbridge :) At a certain level you are expected to have rather than not have. Pit based trading most likely will join dinosaurs at your local history museum.
     
  52. There are so many forms of trading that go by the name of scalping.. just about every one except real scalping in fact
     
  53. But can't possibly be as bad as your spelling :p
     
  54. If you read Martin's own book "Pit Bull", it is all there. He was not a scalper.

    " ... with huge underwater position "

    He used occassionaly as one of multiple tactic .Place on exchange give possibility to make that .

    As each tactic this is limited ,alsov with place on exchange .

    Advantage's of place on exchange

    1.speed against retail
    (but competition from another exchange member's)
    2 .commission (if place selled after with profit )

    For retail in CME exist not relevant possibility (from author test
    and game theory) long term to win tick or two on enz7

    Atleast not observed relevant result by any contest's

    by www.marketzar.com -all winner (author alsov) high intensity
    intraday trading - blend from half-point,points,two-five points ...
    20-40 operations per day .


    About russian scalping you can ask dirk(starter of this thread ) ,he is winner of RTS exchange 2007 contest with 1900$ 21 time's multiple in quartal . Each day 500-1000 operations .

    He performed heavy task against competitions ,but he's
    method not possible to use on CME

    It is possible only in Russian undeveloped market .


    Your respectfully ....
     
  55. that is exactly why I have opted out of researching dom analyses, only price and price based indicators reveal real accumulation ImO.
     
  56. JSSPMK


    Registered: Feb 2007
    Posts: 2246


    12-21-07 01:12 PM

    One should not forget that leasing a seat on an exchange and not having one is like wearing a cheap suit bought at a local market or an exclusive boutique over at Knightsbridge At a certain level you are expected to have rather than not have. Pit based trading most likely will join dinosaurs at your local history museum.
    ######################################
    Depend from exchange's ,compare NYMEX policy with
    CME policy .Was disscused before ...
     
  57. Simonis rentec .they need competent personal ...

    Can ask through e-mail ,if you wish .
     
  58. This is very true. The games played on Dom are legion, but there is a way to see through them. Not sure if it is possible on bund but definitely on DAX. I have posted a link earlier in the thread of how I do it.

    Price action is the most important variable of course, but Dom helped me hugely to be not shaken out as many times as I used to be. Once I am in a trade that went into green, managing it becomes easy, it is the beginning that is hard. My loss tolerance is very small. Dom analysis helps to identify bad entries, and thus avoiding them.

    Redduke
     
  59. Ssss,

    Just curious what aspects of under developments on rts are being exploited, if it is not proprietory of course.

    In order to work for simmons, you need at least a PhD.
     
  60. Yes I do get shaken out a fair amount, I suppose I manage to pull through EOD due to experience which includes risk/reward range analyses, stats, etc. I did try out DOM and wasn't any good at it, you need a sharp mind :)
     
  61. Maybe what makes that kind of scalping successful in Russia is very low tick size and very low commissions
     
  62. Yes, it`s true about low tick size, but our commissions are rather high in comparison with commissions in Eurex and CME.
     
  63. I seriously doubt scalping with a density of 100+ trades on main US SIFs is possible with retail commissions.

    Though better to say it is possible of course, but will lead to losing money. :)
     
  64. RedDuke


    Registered: Feb 2005
    Posts: 1032


    12-21-07 02:30 PM

    Ssss,

    Just curious what aspects of under developments on rts are being exploited, if it is not proprietory of course.


    RTS contests participants top 20 have made 27% of volume of RTS index per day ...
    --------------------------------------------------

    In order to work for simmons, you need at least a PhD.

    That are plenty of PHD in Russia ,which are jews as Simonis
    Simonis have had one from Russia ,but this commited suicid .

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------


    About RTS contest please ask Dirk -he is the winner .Independent what you think about RTS market ,he won under heavy competitions .Respect ...


    Your respectfully ..
     
  65. janis,

    The issue is crossing volatility with frequency.

    As Redduke stated this is not something to be seen on fast bar charts.

    Volatility is not just one movement in a period, it is the frequency of the excursions in a range of a specific (minimum) volatility.

    At some point signal to noise is a consideration. But as has been said that may be understood on the DOM. Often pulled orders are as important as orders traded.

    By using convergence and divergence (my current nick name), you have a comparison that is not flighty or random in nature. This is how to be able to judge that "end effects" are in play.

    Once you focus on the "reaction" levels of the players, at some point you DO get to be anticipatory. At extremes the DOM is infallible at telling you what can't happen.

    The punch line for scalping is not complex. As has been stated, there is a very heavy reliance on the "persistence" of the entry conditions. Most often there is the same identity for the exit. Instead please weigh heavily that there is a linkage of scalps. What is between scalps is very important. Make a list of the link variations and find out how often the perisistence of the "link type" remains true to form.

    Most people are emotionally sapped by the nature of being in, then out of a scalp. What would it feel like, if between scalps ,the "link type" (the market action between scalps) was known to be consistent and unchanging and, then, when it changed, it happened in a reliable progression?

    There are only two progressions of "link types" it turns out. Obviously, it can easily be concluded as why there are only two possibilities.

    I feel that scalping rhythms can be attained that add all of these trader skill assets to the table. There do need to be some blinking lights so to speak for establishing the condition sets for these two progression possibilities.

    At this point in time, human sensory limits have been passed as stated or inferred.
    Unfortunately not many people have the ability to get this sort of stuff to come into view, but, it is necessary at some point to do just that or you are limited to what you can sense from streaming data that is running a little behind real time.

    To be able to move ahead of real time by observing the reactions that will be coming up, changes two major things: 1. the extent of each extraction and 2. the harmonious nature of the linkage of extractions.

    Some one mentioned games and contests. Unfortunately they are all being played on very low quality platforms and data feeds. Time to put the checkers and checker boards away for good.

    Red, we need to meet.

    Janis, thank God your English is as good as your Russian.
     
  66. Hi Cd23,

    Great post. I totally agree about flashing light as a signal, well may be not the light but some signal.

    I personally had to split it into 2. One I developed in ninja trader (I use it for charting) which analyzes price behavior and another one in excel that anayzes DOM and is fed from x trader. Even one second of hesitation can cost few tics and potentially ruin good trade.

    I could have coded the whole thing in ninja new version 6.5 but there is no reliable data feed that reports all tics and provides Dom at the same time, so I had to split the logic in 2.

    Where are you located?

    Regards,
    redduke
     
  67. Thanks for good words about my English. :)

    I agree with your post and want to say only that probably high frequency scalping just does not suite my personality and personalities of successfull traders I know.

    I just don't see a need to trade that much as 100+ trades a day, simply because 10 or so trades with 1:3 risk/reward a day seem to be enough for me to feel OK. :)

    There was time when I was interested in scalping futures and asked people like Brett Steenbarger who personally knows many successfull scalpers and he admitted that scalping techniques which consider say 400 trades a day on ES are very hard to replicate with retail commissions, cause average profit per trade for such traders is often less than 1 tick...

    Never said quick scalping is impossible for such markets as DAX though, because I know it and agree it is probably the world's best market for scalping in the world (at least among markets with significant trading volume).
     
  68. Gentlemen


    1 .With exception as Russia to date not observed any relevant
    scalping record by retail .

    Intraday (20-40 operations) with risk 100% and 500 $ margin possible to make in some (clear not all ) week 500-600% for small capital

    2. Motive -Who need scalping (500-1000 operations per day)
    and who order propapganda of scalping ?

    1.Broker
    2.Exchange
    3. Provider of high speed
    communications equipment /Internet
    4. Seller of specific platfom Xtraderpro with delay 0 millisec
    for 1500$ per month


    Operator must make lucky all this before (pay forward)
    and only after that wrok for own pocket


    Russia Contest RTS give example that operator which have made from 1900 $ 20000$ in quratal with scalping payed some
    9500$ commissions
     
  69. As you and others have just said, a person can pull 60 points per contract ($500 margin) a week by doing 100 to 200 trades a week. This is especially reasonable when, on the ES, for example you can expect a 12 point range per day as a measure of what is offered.

    On average this is a 2 to 4 five minute bar hold. I posted an example this week where two trades that consumed 20 minutes of market time produced about 5% of the values in the profit range you suggest. 1.6 hours is 5% of the weekly trading time. So there is a great deal of time available to pick off more equally valuable turns.

    The DAX is no different than the ES except for the lack of a volume feed. Volume, however, is easily simulated in several ways. The more relaxed manner of holds like 7 minutes and consuming 2 five minute bars and 13 minute holds consuming 4 five minute bars do yield more than the OODA and turning 24,000 contracts a day (400 cars x 60 turns) as does Grenspoon under Steenbarger's continual care. The ratio of the two approaches for equal capital (250,000) is 3:1 in favor of the slower method at advanced beginner levels.

    Steenbarger's oft quoted performance of his patients demonstrates how rewards of less than a tic net per contract turn becomes the asymtote of the OODA trading style he uses to eek performance from these traders.

    Strangely, optimizing the slower method comes down to using a scalping strategy applied to the "end effects" of the slower method. In stuff I have posted in the past it comes under four or five topics.: the IF's, the steer and focus, slaloming, carving, and the dom and non dom pattern trading. Most of the finer points turn out to be under the visual radar of monitoring. This is why OODA doesn't work for optimising (why they use radar and electronics in fighter planes and their guided missiles these days).

    More is not the solution to optimizing. Precision is the solution. In trading when optimizing a leg and recognizing that the limit of an exit is an entry, is when a trader can get a two for one. Each tic the exit is extended IS another tic earned if the exit is the next entry as in a reversal type trade. A simple way of looking at all of it is to not exit until you have an optimum new entry. Most people enter from the sidelines (Steenbarger et al) Why not enter from an existing position that is also closed out simultaneously? This requires a lot less thinking and use of the mind (memory). If you do this, then the slower method numbers increase by 200% relative to the first stated results.
     
  70. Thanks for the breadcrumbs.

    Back to work I go.
     
  71. This is a problem in some other markets as well. What is a suitable substitute? Using volatility measures or components of the index?
     
  72. As you and others have just said, a person can pull 60 points per contract ($500 margin) a week by doing 100 to 200 trades a week. This is especially reasonable when, on the ES, for example you can expect a 12 point range per day as a measure of what is offered.

    On average this is a 2 to 4 five minute bar hold. I posted an example this week where two trades that consumed 20 minutes of market time produced about 5% of the values in the profit range you suggest. 1.6 hours is 5% of the weekly trading time. So there is a great deal of time available to pick off more equally valuable turns.
    ##################################
    Dear Sir

    If you adressed this message to author ...

    suspect ,that exist not reason for retail with small capital to trade es

    small risk -en,ym,
    high volatile ert and dax(depend from margin
    conditions ,some time before openecry offered 1000$ intraday
    margin for dax)


    Example with 500%-600% per week related to multiple attempts with 100% loss.It can be only short term peak perfomance for small capital with objective -win day,week conterst or to make record .

    It is not for long-term ...
     
  73. For long term, a person has a business plan and the trading goes through many stages of improvement and growth.

    DAX is the future for trading to make money. You list sets of criteria. For the long term a person needs places to shift commodities profits to simply because the commodities markets only have so much liquidity.

    The combination of commodities and currencies provide the base for extracting capital under leveraged conditions. Using 500% a week under steady state conditions after ramping up capital to the capacity of a given market is very doable.

    Weekly transfers otu of commodities and currencies are normal and that capital goes to position trade equities. This is less leveraged and does not have a significant upper bound in the application of capital. But it is prudent to not have too much capital in a stream nor too many streams. 100,000 share limits and 8 to 12 parallel streams of of 10 instruments each is a suitible application from an opportunity point of view and a management point of view. This is extraction and not competition. You can see that SAC and its clones simply buried themselves with an in opportune strategy. Surpluses beyond position trading need to be skimmed monthly into sector rotation applications. The rotations are usually up to two months per cycle. 4 1/2 weeks is currently optimum. Again this is an extraction process where an optimum amount of capital is removed from peaking sectors and reinvested in the rising sectors. there are about 200 sectors available for rotation.

    We have just come through an era where securitization, corporate books, and quantiative trading reigned. that has been driven to illiquidity now and for the forseeable future. Skirting around this modus as always been possible. The quant epic is like the carbon sink of natural cycles. The active carbon is ultimately parked in carbon sinks just like the white cliffs of Dover (carbonates derived from living organic life).

    There have never been any contests that replicate making money. There are several reasons: the contest rules, the contest trading platforms; and the contest participants that are drawn to poor rules and poor platforms. Too bad.

    The performance of trading may only be measured in comparison to what is offered. Being effective and efficient is related only to what is offered. 60 points a week on 100 to 200 trades demonstrates effectiveness and efficiency. Optimizing comes after obtaining effectiveness and efficiency. Here the level is 180 points a week on the same number of trades. The major shift is to precision and, as a direct consequence, more time in the market compared to the available market time.

    When a person looks at the feedback loops of a strategy, take OODA for example, it is easily seen that the OODA approach has no refinement capability as related to what the market offers. At best it is a model for competition of traders where competition is not the real game used for making money. Neither is mostly any other published modelling.

    It is not easy to draw anyone into the consideration of making money from what the market offers. There is not much commercial interest in that as you have pointed out. The interest of the financial industry largely lies in client relations and managing money of clients. This is very different than making money from what the market offers.

    As seen from above the equity curve has three levels of contribution each determined by the leveraged capacities. Adding client capital, of course, could be put on the table. In fact, it is about the only thing that is on the table for large financial institutions. Almost all bonuses come from dealing with clients and acquiring their capital and making use of it in non trading ways and taking a slice. Making money trading ultimately comes down to moving money out of other's accounts and into the trader's account. The market affords the capacity to do this and the stratagies afford the money velocities. Both are always present, therefore, the trader must always be in the market at capacity and be attaining the maximum velocity of transfer. This data is ever present and available to all. There are no contests that afford a demonstration of this kind of activity. Platform providers do not design to this specification either. If a person works and trades in this manner, it is considered unbelievable and astonishing. Why? simply because no one seems to consider extracting what markets offer as the design criteria for making money. The question is why not? The reason for why not is that the most capital given to designers is given to address the extend to which the market is out of balance and to have a design to take advantage of the imbalances.

    A person can go to where big money is operating and see that there is no connection to what is offered by markets and big money.

    You mention small money and what is done. Small money is a temporary situation at best. How long can a person be small if he is extracting the potential?

    From the above you can see why the bonuses at big money places are so small. These guys who get the bonuses are definitely afraid to trade. They just spend it instead.

    Can you imagine what it would be like if hedge funds and mutual funds made any money?
     
  74. No offence ssss, but very hard to understand what are you trying to say with these "100% risk.... weekly 600% profit"...

    I understood your point that high frequency scalping is very profitable for brokers, but what are you trying to offer instead?

    P. S. As for me I don't even see why would I want to scalp at all. With retail commissions it's so much work and less profit compared to doing like 50 trades a week trading intraday swings with far better R/R. But thats just my case.
     
  75. If you're scalping with 55-60 eurocents per roundtrip on Eurex, then commission is still an important factor but opens up a whole new world of possibilities in terms of strategies.

    The prop traders who have membership fees scalp ticks and half-ticks in the STIR-market and spreads of index futures. Maybe two ticks with index futures.

    As was said on this thread before, scalping is a loosely applied term and surely when considering retail commissions it's only viable on the longer term scalping strategies (sic).
     
  76. With such commissions of course it would be the way to go... But with EUR4 roundtrip (usual retails comm.)...
     
  77. CFerret


    Registered: Sep 2005
    Posts: 343


    12-23-07 05:15 AM

    No offence ssss, but very hard to understand what are you trying to say with these "100% risk.... weekly 600% profit"...

    As stated -if any operator have objectve's to win day ,week
    trading contest against 100-10000 competitors,he must perform great risk . 99% would loose ,one would win with result some 500 -1000% per week

    It is from praxis

    You can observe high and low part of table by
    by contest each month

    http://www.interbankfx.com/Contest/ContestResults.aspx





    I understood your point that high frequency scalping is very profitable for brokers, but what are you trying to offer instead?

    Author can not offer ,he is not teacher and not planned to be .
    Onlly from he's multiple contest experience(which alsov limited) ,author can say with good precision -who need
    this or another tactic (motive ) ,is 60% winning trade's
    realy or advertising?( adv junk )

    #################################

    P. S. As for me I don't even see why would I want to scalp at all. With retail commissions it's so much work and less profit compared to doing like 50 trades a week trading intraday swings with far better R/R. But thats just my case.
    ###################################

    All top results by contest as 755-855% montly by fxcm or
    500-1250% per week by trader2007 was performed with 20-50 operations per week or month
    Alsov russian snsh performed from 11000 $ until 230 000$
    in quartal with low quantity of operations

    Exist multi bln capabilities to perform 20-50 operations
    in month (time ,entry,exit ,position value and anothers parametr's)
     
  78. ...As was said on this thread before, scalping is a loosely applied term and surely when considering retail commissions it's only viable on the longer term scalping strategies (sic).

    #############

    Speed advantage by institutional not forget alsov ...
     
  79. OK, I see, your words were about contests crap, not real life everyday trading... Then everything you said is absolutely reasonable...
     
  80. OK, I see, your words were about contests crap, not real life everyday trading... Then everything you said is absolutely reasonable...

    Not forget ,this which performed in contest with great chance
    better in everyday trading (with decreased risk) -Schwartz.Miniervini,Mark D.Cook &
     
  81. Sure, trading is trading. But I don't think it is a good idea to give a novice samples from contests. It can give a wrong conception of risk management to unprepared person.

    Plus winning in a contest by catching a lucky streak of profitable trades with extreme risk has nothing to do with trading results of steady and smotth equity curve year after year.

    Only second example deserves any respect for me.
     
  82. CFerret



    Sure, trading is trading. But I don't think it is a good idea to give a novice samples from contests. It can give a wrong conception of risk management to unprepared person.
    #############################

    ?

    From risk management point of view -

    1.Not send to www.marketzar.com any cent
    2. Try win place 1-7 by short 3 hours contest
    by marketzar.com without charge .

    place 4-7 give you a right to participate in long
    6 hours contests with 1500$ for 1 place without
    50$ charge

    All operators ,which won 1 place by www.marketzar.com have real time accounts ,if you win 1 place ,you are good .

    Author won 1 place,2 place but have had conflict with money
    transfer/payement .After author pressed www.marketzar.com
    to pay money with court and fbi ,money was payed ,but for author was denied possibility to participate in folloving contest's

    Rule -not send to any broker any cent ,with exceptions this ,which was won by trading contest as price money .

    That is risk management

    P.S. It is not any doubt ,that exist by www.marketzar.com
    multiple operators ,which are better as author - serg851,commodity and anothers & ,but author have had
    a chance to win some 1-2 first place per year .
    Author have alsov price's by another contests in Europha and USA
     
  83. Plus winning in a contest by catching a lucky streak of profitable trades with extreme risk has nothing to do with trading results of steady and smotth equity curve year after year.

    Win contest multiple time ...
     
  84. Gentlemen

    some link's ,which can be usefull for you -

    Only for information . It is not suggest ,that author support this or another opinion . ..


    http://www.seykota.com/tribe/

    http://www.turtletrader.com/

    http://minerviniprivateaccess.com/

    http://www.markdcook.com/

    http://www.rentec.com/

    http://www.marketzar.com/

    risk ad'justed for fund manager

    http://www.pfgbest.com/cta/contest_details.asp

    Robbins tradíng ,but result of L.Williams is deceptive statement
    through NFA

    http://www.robbinstrading.com/intro.htm
     
  85. Why would I want to mess with contests at all? :confused:
     
  86. I guess I am beginning to understand what's your interest in this contests BS... Looks pretty much like advertising to me. :D
     
  87. I guess I am beginning to understand what's your interest in this contests BS... Looks pretty much like advertising to me.

    They are all have a problems ,but this problems essentialy
    equal to problems by non contest trading ...
    #################
    But contest you can try to perfom this task without capital
    risk

    No adv .Opinion exchange only .

    Best wish ...
     
  88. CFerret


    Why would I want to mess with contests at all?

    Most heavy task
    1.- win contest under competitions pressure
    with record 600-900%
    2. - More light task -win contest without record

    3- Lighter as 2 , perform year of trading with perfomance
    equal to your month prefomance (decreased risk )

    no competitions ,time is no critical .Operator which was contest winner would have reserve in quality by normal trading
    against another's ....
     
  89. Making "600-900% under competitors pressure", but WITHOUT REAL $$$ PRESSURE is WAY EASIER task than making consistent income year in year out with your real money on a stake making 100's or 1000's of trades.

    When you don't risk money - just risk like crazy in a contest and catch a streak and bingo - you're the winner! You risk NOTHING except some time and can always try to catch a streak next time. Where's the pressure here? I don't see any.

    Not more at least than playing poker for fake money. :D

    Thats why IMO these BS contests of "600-900%" have no real value in measuring trader's professionalism. They can only impress complete noobs, but no serious people would ever even consider these numbers...

    Merry Christmas!
     
  90. Making "600-900% under competitors pressure", but WITHOUT REAL $$$ PRESSURE is WAY EASIER task than making consistent income year in year out with your real money on a stake making 100's or 1000's of trades.


    Dear Sir

    1. fxcm,interbankfx,rts ,robbinstrading,pfg CTA all are real time contest's

    2. Through germany tax system operator which won
    with real money must pay 50% tax,this which won
    with fake money by trader2007 125000$ payed
    0 tax.

    3. You have idelogical conzept of middle class in head
    from Lokk,Pain,Franklin ,Kant ,Spinoza .

    This is plagiat from Aristotel " ...Slave must be "

    Suspect that Your objective's and means heavy influenced from mass propaganda for mass auditorium -Middle class .Not forget that USA have love quality of life against France . It is alsov opinion of some USA operators .

    Best wish ...
     
  91. When you don't risk money - just risk like crazy in a contest and catch a streak and bingo - you're the winner! You risk NOTHING except some time and can always try to catch a streak next time. Where's the pressure here? I don't see any.

    That essentialy make Goldman Sachs .He risk only 2% of
    company capital per day.All another foreign money.

    Alsov Minervini ,Cook ,Schwartz ,Simonis all used foreign money .

    To decrease a risk . If fund manager won ,he would recieved untill 50% of profit ,if would loss ,would loss he's clients.

    Not forget ,that 80-90% of funds are underperformed to SPY
     
  92. Thats why IMO these BS contests of "600-900%" have no real value in measuring trader's professionalism. They can only impress complete noobs, but no serious people would ever even consider these numbers...


    1. Not interessed to any appreciation -professional ,not professional &

    2.If was possibility to play and win contest regulary

    a.without capital risk
    b. without commission
    c. without tax
    d. with great first prize more as 10000-100000$

    Than author would play only contest's with fake money.
    Sorry in USA can not partizipate (not USA resident)

    Each ideja have limitation
     
  93. I don't live in Germany and don't care about 50% tax. But see the reason why you do this. The first reasonable reason actually. :)

    Never make too fast conclusions about people you don't know well. Or you might get laughed at quite often. :D
     
  94. Mixing apples with oranges. Managing OPM still assumes having REAL MONEY on a stake. And if you lose it, it will harm your reputation at very least.

    If you play contests you risk NOTHING AT ALL!

    So bottom line is: if you're happy playing contests - go ahead, nothing wrong about it... Just don't try to encourage people that winning contests has something to do with real life trading, which is about real risk and trade management, not about catching a winning streak in hope to get $10K prize once in a while.

    It has something in common of course, just like fake money poker game has in common with say $1000 NL Hold'em game. :D
     
  95. So bottom line is: if you're happy playing contests - go ahead, nothing wrong about it... Just don't try to encourage people that winning contests has something to do with real life trading, which is about real risk and trade management, not about catching a winning streak in hope to get $10K prize once in a while
    ######################################

    Do you observed that ?

    Author not interessed for any public appreciation ...

    Author stated only -"Do not send to any broker any
    cent with exception of prize money ,which you won by trading
    contest"

    Not forget ,that B.Baruch ,jews in coutry ,where jews
    are strong lossed first four years , Schwartz loosed multiple years , Mark D.Cook was near bankruptcy .

    You are indoktrinated middle class doktrin -
    "Just don't try to encourage people -winning contests has something to do with real life trading, which is about real risk and trade management,"

    It is related to work of Lokk,Kant,Spinoza,Montesk'e
    Franklin,Pain .

    For houshold woman .. You make propaganda ,end effekt
    of which -10000 would send money to bank or broker ,one would
    have true good win through years (industry need this person for propaganda) ,95-98%% loss .

    IF operator not send any cent ,he can loss only he's time ,but that is equall to loss of time by all another hobby.
    IF operator send only prize money ,he can loss only prize
    money,not more ...
    IF you can not win public contest multiple time'S ,your chance
    is worster by real trading "years through years" against this
    which performed contest winning .

    Better perform 10-20 won,or more ...

    Compare with poker VSOP .Person started with 0 $ through internet adv. and won 2-3 mln $



    Best wish ...
     
  96. If a household woman thinks that she can become profitable in trading without real efforts, which are needed in any serious profession, then loss is exactly what she deserves. And I don't see anything wrong here. 99% lose because they get what they want - they want to trade, but do not want to become professionals.

    As for broker, you seem to be completely lost in your conspiracy theories... What kind of propaganda do you see? I see only one: $49.95 (or how much is that) membership at contests site. But thats in your posts not mine. :D

    I don't care about paying broker - it's usual cost of running business and real trading through a broker has way more growth potential than winning contests from time to time.

    You said the right word about contests: "hobby". Contest is a hobby and indeed can stay only as such, simply because real trading can make thousands times more and it is a real business with real potential, so "middle class" spare time hobby can be related to contest perfectly, not trading business.

    As for others who can perform better than me: who cares? Only thing I care about is to make as much as I can and if someone is better - good for him and no difference for me at all.

    So once again: no harm in contests, but it is no serious business either. As a hobby it without any doubt is OK, even more, it can be a very good additional practice exercise for a trader, but changing potential of real trading career to hobby is... Well, everyone chooses his/her own paths to go. :)
     
  97. If you can make money scalping in Russia---you can make money scalping in the states ----or anywhere else for that matter.

    Just remember the tick value on Russian futures like the RTS is low. Outside of Russia you will be dealing with more expensive instruments. And volume has been nice because of the wild bull market in Russia.

    I would check out the upcoming Oil futures exchange in Russia that all the Russian Oil companies are going to be supporting. It could be a candy store with lots of money to be made.
     
  98. I see only one: $49.95 (or how much is that) membership at contests site. But thats in your posts not mine
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    Was stated from author- play in small contest without charge
    ,if you win place 4-7 you would receive right to play great
    contest without charge .Please see related message from author above.

    Author suspect ,you are true belong to "Spiessbürgertum"

    All your argumentation to send money to broker
    Are you payed from he*m from this kind of propaganda ?



    .Author stated multiple time- not send any cent to any broker
    With exception prize money ...

    You can controll all message from author .
     
  99. I don't care about paying broker - it's usual cost of running business and real trading through a broker has way more growth potential than winning contests from time to time.


    That is all propaganda for middle class with middle intelect.

    Related to life objective from Lokk,Kant,Franklin ,Pain Spinopza

    Family ,two children,church ,house,university and all another what make man a slave .

    They are all plagiator*s from Aristotel -"...Slave must be"
     
  100. TGM


    If you can make money scalping in Russia---you can make money scalping in the states ----or anywhere else for that matter.

    TGM Did you observed any scalping top result in USA ,comparable
    with 700-800% by contest fxcm or interbankfx ?


    Or you payed from broker and exchange for propaganda
    of scalping ?

    Broker and Exchange are first to be lucky with scalping ,not
    operator .

    Exception ,if operator buyed place on exchange and selled this place after that with profit .
     
  101. So once again: no harm in contests, but it is no serious business either. As a hobby it without any doubt is OK, even more, it can be a very good additional practice exercise for a trader, but changing potential of real trading career to hobby is... Well, everyone chooses his/her own paths to go.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    Sorry ,Ferret not knew from which country you are ,but you
    say only some part of religos propaganda (Lokk in "Tretise to goverment" related to religion) for middle class with middle intellect .

    Author disscussed USA sucessfull trader*s ,which
    knew that most richest person in world civilization was
    Thengiz-Khan( that was not most important part of he*s biography),no W.Buffet with B.Gates .

    Also this USA trader*s knew that not USA have quality of life ,but France .

    IF you will receive respect for your business in USA ,than
    that would related for value,moral of Lokk
    "Treatize to goverment"

    And that is not another as religios junk for masse with low intellect .Instrumental ideja . Lokk was used from Adam Smit

    As Critij stated -"... If religion not exist ,that she must be created"(To receive satisfaction from power which help of religion)
     
  102. I have nothing personally against you ssss, but you speak BS here.

    You state Chinghiz-Khan as a standard to seek for, compared to "middle class" Buffet and Gates, but as a way to achieve "above middle class" standard you advice to... Go play contests instead of building a serious trading business... That is funny at very least.

    I seriously doubt that playing in contests on crappy sites and bucket shops is going to ever put you even in what you call "middle class" league of Buffet and Gates... Or even 1/1000 of their wealth. :D
     
  103. Buffet & Gates are upper class :)
     
  104. BTW, considering having children, house and an education as signs of slavery is hilarious!

    According to this theory ideally free person should be someone having nobody to love, who never visited a school and lives under the bridge. :D
     
  105. What are talking about? I was just answering the guys question that started this thread.

    I have been scalping successfully for over 10 years. I would say position trading pays better and is easier to learn for most people. Some people are just scalpers by nature. But if this guys is making 6 figures a year scalping the RTS. He should be able to do quite well in other products scalping. Thats all.

    my comment was directed to the guy or gal that started this thread--- and I do not push any particular style nor do I work for a brokerage. lol
     
  106. Guys, use the ignore button on this guy - did it long ago.
     
  107. You took the words out of my mouth. His post was rediculous. One of the best things that ever happenned to me was my daughter. Last time
    I checked, I did not recall feeling like a slave because of my family.
     
  108. CFerret



    BTW, considering having children, house and an education as signs of slavery is hilarious!

    According to this theory ideally free person should be someone having nobody to love, who never visited a school and lives under the bridge.


    It is Diogen ... approx.

    ...One of the best things that ever happenned to me was my daughter.

    It is "Spiessbürgertum" (small citizenchip) religion value ...

    Last time
    I checked, I did not recall feeling like a slave because of my family.

    You are false ... You are depend from love to your daughter .
    If any person kill she ? what would with your satisfaction from live ?

    Did you perform study of antiq cultur ?

    Chief of CIA performed that .Not only last . Some of realistic person in USA business alsov

    Family,University education ,Religions -that are all instituts of slavery...

    Gorgias -successfull greek diplomat -

    http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/g/gorgias.htm

    i. Nothing exists
    ii. Even if existence exists, it cannot be known
    iii. Even if it could be known, it cannot be communicated.
     
  109. I have nothing personally against you ssss, but you speak BS here.

    You state Chinghiz-Khan as a standard to seek for, compared to "middle class" Buffet and Gates, but as a way to achieve "above middle class" standard you advice to...

    Go play contests instead of building a serious trading business... That is funny at very least.

    "Intelligence is 9/10 of the battle" -Napoleon

    #####################################
    I seriously doubt that playing in contests on crappy sites and bucket shops is going to ever put you even in what you call "middle class" league of Buffet and Gates... Or even 1/1000 of their wealth

    Dear Sir

    Sorry to inform you ,but you have made multiple error's with reading of author text. In some case you accepted that error
    was performed .

    1. You are not noticed ,that in Germany tax untill 50% on speculating income .After that accepted error
    2 .you was false ,with statement that author gave a sugggest to pay 49.90$ by marketzar.com .Author gave a statement to play small contest without charge and not send any cent to any broker .

    Suspect ,that you belong to new young russian generation .
    Follovers of "nuvorich".

    with high chance your opinion have value only internal in Russia
    not more ...


    It is enough not disscuss with you any issue .


    Best wish ...
     
  110. I missed the point where all this relates to the topic of this thread. It looks like you are jumping all over the place. Stay with the subject and do not make a fool out of yourslef with quotes of people that most people find rediculous.

    I assume that by quoting Diogen you like his teachings. By the way if being poor on purpose and living in a bucket like Diogen looks appealing to you, then to each its own.

    Regards,
    redduke
     
  111. JSSPMK


    Registered: Feb 2007
    Posts: 2261


    12-26-07 04:33 PM

    Buffet & Gates are upper class


    But they example of WASP (White anglo-sachs &)

    Corrrect ?

    Suspect ,that FED Barnake have more economic power as Buffet and Gates.

    More of them ,not all university educated USA native WASP
    knew ,who Buffet is ... (have meeted this person's by Bundeswehr university in Hamburg ,USA officier)
     
  112. missed the point where all this relates to the topic of this thread. It looks like you are jumping all over the place. Stay with the subject and do not make a fool out of yourslef with quotes of people that most people find rediculous.


    Dear Sir

    You are received a link to original greek philosophy .

    #########################

    I assume that by quoting Diogen you like his teachings.

    Not wihtout grounds ,but exist alsov another -Critij ,Gorgias,Protagor ,Epikur ,Heraklit


    Best wish ...

    I missed the point where all this relates to the topic of this thread.

    Your error ...
     
  113. Go play contests instead of building a serious trading business... That is funny at very least.

    I seriously doubt that playing in contests on crappy sites and bucket shops is going to ever put you even in what you call "middle class" league of Buffet and Gates... Or even 1/1000 of their wealth.
    ##########################################
    Author have check from Eurex with price money and activity of author in contest was controlled from BAFIN /Germany SEC / Head of derivative deprtment

    Prize money and activitiy of the author in USA controlled from Court of IOWA and SEC office San Francisco .


    Did your opinion have any value against goverment ?

    Spiessbürgerturm can not match authority .If you would activ
    in trading ,you would received multiple opportunities from different goverment authorities for understanding your place
    in social hierarchy .Place with multiple dependency ...

    Best wish .... milstar

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7zW_IiAuQA&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QtuDusWUCE&feature=related
     
  114. I did not want to say this, but it is very difficult to understand you at all considering the awful language you write your posts on...

    Please use some of your awesome contests winnings to visit some courses of English... :D

    You again make statements which have nothing to do with reality about people you never knew. I told you already, such statements sound very pathetically and only can cause people laughing at you.

    "Dear sir"... I do trade actively for several years, maybe not as actively as starter of this thread, but as actively as I want to and never met a proof of insane conspiracy theory you always try to propagate here...

    And unlike you, bound with thoughts of other people like Diogen, I don't care about a place I have in social hierarchy at all...

    All I care is to live a life in a way I think is right. For me it means to make my family happy and when possible help those who need our help and by this way make this world a little better.

    And what do you offer instead of what you call "slavery"?

    All I've heard from you for now is living like a "rain man" and playing trading contests in bucket shops. What's your purpose in a life at all?
     
  115. 1.Dear sir"... I do trade actively for several years, maybe not as actively as starter of this thread, but as actively as I want to and never met a proof of insane conspiracy theory you always try to propagate here...
    ################

    Dear sir

    Sorry to inform you ,that your statment about your trading
    without sgnature of the SEC irrelevant -no matter .
    ################################

    From your different staements author have follvonig impression

    1.You are indoctrinated through speicif sect as example "Scientology" . This is forbidden through
    European law
    2. You make speicific propaganda with objective
    retail operator must send money to bank .

    ...
    This is essentialy false . Must not ,as 99% would loose through years
    ############################
    Please use some of your awesome contests winnings to visit some courses of English...

    No demand.


    SEC,Court in USA ,FBI understand author ,all another opinions or privat persons are not the matter .

    Best wish ....
     
  116. ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The further the better! Now I have become a scientology adept!!!!! ROFL!!!!!
     
  117. I'd like to add, that on Russian market there's a situation when RTS_index(and corresp.future) depends in fact just on 4-8 "big" stocks, like GAZPROM, LUKOIL, GMK, etc. So many russian scalpers watch how these blue chips change on small timeframes and go after them.
    In my opinion this is a great difference comparing to, for ex., DAX scalpers, who don't have such reference..
     

  118. Dude,

    Just do not say anything more. Your words make some of idiots on this board to actually sound wise. This is my last response to you unless you will post in relation to the topic of this thread.

    Guys,

    Let's stop responding to Ssss, unless he actually will post about scalping.

    Regards,
    redduke
     
  119. I sure hope this thread continues as it started. It was interesting to hear about scalping the RTS, and it's always interesting to hear others perception of scalping European and US index futures. Just ignore Ssss completely.
     
  120. Agree. No need to feed the troll.

    I live in Russia but never knew about RTS specifics so would discuss it with a big interest.
     
  121. RedDuke, thanks a lot for this one. As I can understand one of the most popular trading software is X_Trader by TT. Is there any opportunity to try it with real quotes like Ninja?
    BTW, is this a common thing - when a trading platform(like Ninja) can connect to a variety of feeds(like Zen-Fire)?
     
  122. Are Russian brokers regulated? I know Russia is a country of wild political swings, I heard some Russian brokers abuse margin requirements, so there is that aspect of how safe your deposits are with a Russian brokerage.
     
  123. I hope there's a moderator who can wipe off this flood.
    Or he will bury the thread..
     
  124. I never traded russian markets, even though I live here, but I've heard from people who do that stocks leverage here is let's say "negotiable". :p

    And as for RTS SIF it's performance bond is good enough by default. Margin required is like $400 while contract is worth $3K+.
     
  125. Hi Relhby,

    Ninja is not a quoting service it is just a front end for charting and execution. I personally use X-Trader for my trades and Ninja for charting. Unfortunately I can not use zen-fire feed into Ninja for DAX since it does not currently report correct volume (every trade comes through with volume 99). Zen-fire is great for other markets such as es, ym, russell and so on.

    As far as I know there is no way to try X-Trader without opening an account.

    Ninja is really trying to have the best of multiple worlds, that is good charting, trade execution and multiple feeds. So far, so good. And being free until you need live trade execution helps to draw people as well.

    Regards,
    redduke
     
  126. Sure i agree, if you are doing good in Russia Scalping,
    you will replicate your success here as well.

    You should consider Nasdaq 100 Futures NQ and
    YM , For both if these instrument, You can Scalp well
    However you have to consider reducing your commission.

    YM gives you profit Loss of 5$ per Box,
    You should get IDEM membership for $2000
    ( Application Fee ) & then Monthly Lease of your
    seat you will pay 100$ per Month.
    You can Scalp YM, Nice Bounces, & good Treand
    so plenty of opportunity for Scalping.

    NQ gives you profit of 5$ per Box.
    You should get CME membership & apply for
    either individual membership or ECM-W
    Nasdaq is good for Scalping.

    Russell 2000 Used to be good market for Scalpers,
    However it moved to ICE platform,
    Now i think it is hard to trade.

    For any help you can contact me.

    happy Trading & wish you best Scalping.
     
  127. Sure i agree, if you are doing good in Russia Scalping,
    you will replicate your success here as well.
    ##############################


    To date ,not observed any relevant trading record
    with scalping of es,en,ert ...


    Your respectfully
     
  128. Interesting. Any real example of flipper?

    I am trying to find a way to detect a fake order vs. true order...