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Review of One up trader

  1. I joined not expecting to actually get funded they had a sale(trying to attract customers i guess the community is not very active) but to see if I could pass as I was going through a draw down at the time and decided to reduce size on my personal trading.

    The Pros are the criteria to get funded is simple trade for a min of 15/30 days and reach the target, trade consistent(your largest trade must less than the sum of 3 of your trades(obviously you would pick the second, third, and fourth largest trades), not go under the trailing stop.

    Now for the bad they use Ninja trader 8 which I wasn't used to and had several issues with it not syncing data between the DOM and chart, customer support is only through email which took about 22 minutes to respond to an issue that I had which was actually my mistake I was essentially trading in demo but closed the position in the live account but by the time I realized it with no response by the way the position was grossly negative so i decided to just leave it alone hence blowing the simulated account. Since this is a new service I constantly posted in the "community" to share my experiences with the system examples of my post was about the stalled data, customer service only in email being a huge issue when problems come up which anyone that trades live knows you cant wait 20+ minutes for a resolution when money is on the line, realities of a 15 day evaluation basically that's not enough time to prove someone can be profitable and the rules are to light and i see them making the rules more strict in the future since there seemed to be lots of people passing the combine, how the market reacts to orders and there will be alot traders that will bust out in a live account especially the /CL traders, asking if any of the funded traders could prove they were give a live account simple experiment place a limit order and what the size increase and decrease on the DOM this was done because one of the funded traders asked shouldn't the liquidity increase if we place a limit order 2 said that it doesn't and 2 said it did.

    This is when I was kicked out the community for trolling. I actually had nothing against them just very skeptical overall the concept was good easy funding(if it was real). Like others have said about these type of programs you can do this yourself following the rules they laid out with a $2k live account. if it take you a year or so to learn since most of the people going into these are likely newer traders you funded your live trading simply trade on a sim until you have system to works for you and then maybe do the combine which may give you the psychology input you need because of the money at risk and potential the amount to gain.
  2. I started an evaluation with OneUp [AKA MES Capital] at launch. I passed the evaluation and consequentially received a live, funded, account with them. I can confirm that the DOM doesn't update liquidity which suggests that their 'live account' is actually a simulator. I'm close to $6,000 profit in their 'live' account and will update here if I actually am able to withdraw & receive the money that I have earned.

    There's only two ways that I see this going down:

    1) This is consumer fraud eerily similar to Nonko's demo account shenanigans but using TopStep Trader's business model as some kind of Ponzi scheme; marketing a scouting business to receive funding, signing a contract in which you're an independent contractor trading a live account -- but in reality not trading a live account. This operation would basically be OneUp cashing in on all of the evaluation money without ever taking real risk or offering truly funded accounts. If OneUp ends up not paying the traders who actually do earn money, then this would be very dangerous for those involved in this operation as it would involve the FTC, SEC, authorities, and lots of court cases/jail-time.

    2) Alternatively, their business model is to take in money from evaluations with the premise that most traders, including initial funded traders, end up failing almost immediately by hitting the draw down. As a result, they legitimately pay out the ~3% of successful funded traders from the profits taken in from the ~97%+ failed test-takers/initial funded accounts. In this way, successful funded traders still can earn legitimate money, but they're still only trading simulated accounts.

    At any rate, I want to reiterate for emphasis that their live account isn't live. It's the same simulator as their evaluation. Time will tell whether or not successful funded traders can legitimately withdraw money or not.
  3. After reviewing the contract that I signed, in fine print, it appears that OneUp has the authority to switch their 'live traders' managed accounts from 'live' to 'demo' environments at will without notifying the trader. In practicality, this is probably legal protection, and if you read in between the lines, probably means that OneUp primarily earns money from failed evaluations and that they either don't offer truly 'live' accounts or that truly 'live' accounts are reserved for people who are successful on their 'live' simulator.

    Kind of like how TopStep has 'funded preparation', OneUp basically has a secondary "hidden" 'live demo'. I put that in quotation marks to emphasize that technically anyone can read the contract and discover the same information and that OneUp has done absolutely nothing legally wrong (yet). It's clear in the contract that even if you're a live trader with them that they don't have to give you a real funded account to trade.

    At any rate, and how this affects most people, is that contained in the same clause is affirmation that the trader is paid compensation regardless of if they traded/performed on live or demo. So, basically, it doesn't matter that their 'live account' is demo; if you earn money within their parameters they (theoretically, remember I've not confirmed a withdrawal yet) will indeed payout. Perhaps after a few weeks or months of performance, once they trust you, then maybe you truly do go 'live' for real, but this is just my conjecture.

    So, as of now, I think OneUp is following bullet point #2 in my above post; to summarize:

    1) Their business model is to primarily make money off of failed evaluations and eventually find the holy grail of true talent. Nothing new here, TST does the exact same thing.
    2) If you fail the evaluation, they make money. If you pass, you're essentially put on a probation period where you have to further prove yourself, but this has the caveat that you're still paid compensation as if it was real. If the trader fails at this step, no harm no foul, OneUp takes no risk, liability, or realized losses.
    3) This is conjecture, but I'd imagine that eventually, after you have proven your statistical market advantage, that you truly do go live and they earn 20% commissions off of you. OneUp takes a realized loss at first [but is a far lower realized loss than having a larger quantity of live accounts implode] but has now found their 'holy grail' of trading talent -- the 3% -- and they move them to a real account and probably begin earning 20% commissions immediately based on the trader's historic performance record.

    P.S. As an aside, this is probably a better business model to find real trading talent because it takes out of the equation all of the failed traders from the evaluations and all of the failed traders who essentially got lucky for a funded account only to immediately implode it. It's, in my opinion, a pretty effective approach to make money on the journey of finding the cream of the crop of traders.
  4. This probably is the reason why they have a withdrawal Threshold.
    So i assume they switch you to live once you hit the withdrawal threshold expecting most people will fail and start again.
    This is a perfect explanation for the withdrawal threshold since it probably is demo.
    Interesting to know.
  5. I would hope that a company that wants to follow this model would be smart enough to have lawyers so they arent able to be sued. I would image that their model is to make money off failed traders as well the only reason i signed up was because of the sale they had and if by some miracle that this is real why not. I cant image that they will continue to pay people real money at the rate people were passing at the time I was a member unless they have a ton of money stashed somewhere at some point I expect this model to change closer to the TopStep rat race model basically you must be a super accurate trader in order to get funded and eben then your paying them fees.

    Like I said I have nothing against the company the current model works for traders but I wouldn't expect that to continue. Not sure it any of you remember MES Capital(basically the same company) they did free evaluations probably as a way to get the statistics of failure first handle and model a payout that they lose little or no money at first then once customers are added they will be able to change the rules slowly over time to increase their profit margin.

    If your funded I wouldn't hold any money with them as soon as you can take your money I would do it. Continue riding it until it stops. For people thinking about trying this I would have your system down in a free demo first and wouldn't do more than 2 trials I would do the one with the larger draw down unless your system can make the profit target in 15-30 days. make sure you cancel the subscription when your done.

    My last email to them was asking for the rules that state I cant share my experience with the "community" and for them to remove my information from their servers and have yet to get a reply from those.

  6. I missed your first reply wow $6K in profit and you havent been able to withdraw yet? I though the min was $500 or so hmm that doesnt sound good. I suspected that the person that keep replying to everyone on the board was a One Up Trader employee to try and make people think this was more legit. If you look at my screenshots he claimed he got paid if he is real this leans toward the ponzi scheme model but as you said would the company be that stupid??

  7. Not sure which account he is trading but OneUp does have a withdrawal threshold, so he must first reach the withdrawal threshold and then another 1K since 1K is the minimum withdrawal.

    My guess is they use the withdrawal threshold as some kind of FTP like Topsteptrader does and you go live after you hit the withdrawal threshold.
    However if this is the case they should have been honest about it instead of hiding it in the contract.
  8. I have the $150,000 account so my withdrawal threshold is $5,000 and since you can only withdraw in amounts of $1,000+, I won't be able to determine if this is 'real' until I hit that $6,000 threshold and request the payout.

    As of now, though, these are the facts: I'm 100% certain that new funded traders initially begin on demo. I'm 100% certain that the contract authorizes OneUp to switch funded managed accounts between live and demo at their discretion. I'm 100% certain that OneUp's contract entitles compensation based on whether you traded truly live OR demo.

    This is completely theoretical, but I'd imagine the model works something similar to this:

    ~80% of attempts fail the evaluation stage. OneUp basically profits 100% to their bottom line from evaluation fees + reset fees.
    ~15% of attempts that pass the evaluation stage end up imploding the funded account. OneUp doesn't make money or lose money on these traders because it's actually demo.
    ~5% of attempts pass the evaluation stage and end up being profitable in the live account. OneUp loses money on initial payouts. Once that trader begins withdrawing consistently, they're moved to the 'real' live account because they've essentially proven themselves and OneUp will earn this payout back from the 20% live commissions.

    So, to break this down into numbers, say we have 100 attempts for simplicity:

    ~ 80 people pay around $362.5 and fail. [I calculated this number by taking their lowest fee, $125 a month, and highest fee, $650 a month, and divided it by 2 to figure out their 'average' fee. I then added $100 for one reset of account. Obviously this is going to fluctuate greatly from variables such as 1) how many months people are paying for because it's a monthly recurring subscription 2) how many resets they're activating 3) how many people are opting for the $125 account versus the $375 account (as an aside, in my opinion, given the parameters, the best chance at success is trading small size in the $375/$150000 account), etc.] Anyways, based on such simple calculations, that's at least $29,000 profit brought in.
    ~ 20 people are funded but 15 of those people end up blowing up their account.
    ~ 5 people are funded, actually reach the withdrawal threshold, and withdraw money while still in demo.

    So, those 5 traders total would each have to earn the $5,000 withdrawal limit and another $5,800 on top of that for OneUp to break-even. However, I am more inclined to believe that OneUp will move you from demo to live if you start hitting profit targets as it implies that you actually are a proven trader with a statistical market advantage [you would basically have made over $10,000 trading in 1-3 months, similar in time and scope to TopStep's program of Combine + Funded Trader Preparation].
  9. I also want to mention that in regards to your comments about how many people were funded and why this suggests that it's not sustainable, it's a bit skewed and incorrect because OneUp just launched and as a result had an enormous amount of evaluation participants, far beyond what is normal or average.

    If TopStep, for example, has 100 people per month and fund say 10, it would only make sense that if OneUp had 500 people sign up at launch, then 50 passed (it's 10% either way), and it only 'appears' inflated. I visit the community website occasionally and can tell you that it's fairly inactive (yes, people post daily, but most of the people week-to-week are different people), suggesting that the vast majority of people don't stick around long/fail, and that OneUp's business model is thus far profitable. I also notice a very large difference in activity from launch to now; at launch, there were probably 100+ posting per day, now there's probably like 5. This suggests to me that of those 500+ people who signed up at launch, only a handful have been successful, in-line with my aforementioned statistics in prior posts.

    Again, I can't make any real decision until I hit my profit target and determine if the withdrawals are real or not. As of now though, nothing that I've seen illegitmizes this company.
  10. The philosophical/moral question of the day is:

    Did OneUp also steal the hamster wheel nature of TST and they are only after the fees, or have they actually perfected the end process and they are a legit backing firm???
  11. I follow your arithmetic, above, and the logic of what you're saying makes good sense.

    But in a couple of places I suspect your figures may be "out" ...

    I would think that such a huge majority of aspirants are probably paying OneUp only the minimum of $125 per month that the true average will actually be far lower than the $362.50 you're estimating.

    I strongly suspect, too, that this figure may be a long way out and that TST is funding far more than that. (A minimum for this figure can probably be found from their blog, on which I think they list the traders successfully funded.)

    Good luck!
  12. I was going on the fact that they had 2 sales 10% and 20% during the time of my evaluation and the inactivity of the community but you could be correct on the numbers maybe the other people just didn't post because of the inactivity. Good luck on getting the money out and continued profitability. If I hadn't been kicked out I would have tried again next month using a platform that I'm actually similar with(assuming I could catch another sale)

  13. 7 years later and not one trader has produced any decent consistent money with them. That tells you all you need to know about where the real profit from the company comes from. Selling dreams to dreamers.
  14. Haha, I'll tell you my anecdotal experiences about TopStep and I'll preface it with some background information just as a frame for reference.

    I've been a trader for the last ~10 years and only a professionally consistent and successful one for the last ~5. In my early career, I will fully admit that I was lucky and overzealous; I was in the right market at the right time, an early adopter of an instrument before a long-term favorable trend. It made me arrogant and led me to several large losses inevitably. This forced me to adapt.

    In this industry, it truly does take years of experience [think Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hour theory from his book Outliers] and thousands of hours of screen time to honestly learn patience, discipline, risk management, etc. Over time, I began trading the same position size and never compounding and I've been earning about $250,000 a year trading Oil futures since January 2014 [I trade 10 CL contracts at a time, taking only the highest probability entries, so I only trade about once every week or two on average]. You could say that I'm more of a positional swing trader at heart. If there's anything I've learned in my years of practice, it's that not every environment needs to be traded. Not every day/week/month, etc., needs to be traded. I've found that reducing the amount you trade counter intuitively leads to more profits and that day trading for a few ticks/day isn't feasible for longevity.

    About 1.5 years ago or so I discovered TopStep and thought, hey, I could increase my buying power with essentially no risk so that I could continue trading my own personal accounts while simultaneously operating a TopStep managed account. Why not? Anyways, and keep in mind this is coming from someone with a proven track record of making $250,000+ a year utilizing CL contracts, it took me 3 combines and 2 FTP to just get funded.

    Being forced to day trade with their parameters and drawdowns isn't realistic in the slightest. In addition, you're restricted from trading reports and miss out on a lot of momentum as a result (a large component of my trading strategy is capturing the report volatility because I can predict with an 80%+ accuracy every EIA report; truthfully, most API/EIA reports just resume the prior trend and don't result in a counter-trend reversal).

    When it comes to their drawdown and daily loss limits in particular, this is where you find your hamster wheel. You get fired for "one" bad day. It doesn't matter if 99 out of 100 days you were profitable, if you hit that daily loss limit just once, you're out. It doesn't matter if you made $1,000,000 for them, one bad day you're out. In the Oil market using CL, for example, you can easily lose several thousands of dollars in a day. This doesn't make you a bad trader as you can also easily make several thousands of dollars in a day and what really matters is your statistical market advantage (profit factor). After about a month of being funded, I hit the drawdown [because withdrawals count as losses], and basically got fired, despite the fact that my account was still green if you adjusted for my withdrawals. Back to the combine I go. Another annoying thing I didn't like is that I was receiving daily phone calls from their performance coach that I was forced to answer because my contract stated that if I didn't stay in contact, they reserved the right to liquidate my positions against my will and fire me. When I had good days, it was 'good job, but don't lose it, I've seen people lose it all the very next day' and when I had bad days, it was 'what are you doing, don't lose money, do you have stops in place?'. It was a very condescending attitude and you could tell by the tone of the guy's voice that he was an arrogant prick who felt he had authority because his status at TopStep brought him some pseudo-power. I also found it annoying that they would display my user-name when I made money, withdrew money, etc., and that they would continuously market mediocrity in blog posts, etc. It's like, I truly don't care if someone just made $1.7k in a month trading CL when I just made $10k using the same position size in my personal accounts. In this way, their marketing and advertising is very deceptive because even their best traders are still earning basically pennies with their potential.

    That right there should tell you everything you need to know about TopStep [the fact that even consistently profitable traders still get fired even with advantaged statistics and that even consistently profitable traders and grown adults are 'babied']. They're not interested in professional traders, mentoring potential candidates, or developing their best talent, they're interested in continued evaluation fees because the combine/FTP is basically like a gamble. Anyways, that is where I ended my relationship with TopStep and didn't look back; they're basically handcuffs that prevent learning how to become a 'real' trader and their parameters don't teach you anything except to be 'afraid' and 'fearful' of losses or having 'one day day' which leads to an extreme slippery slope of negative performance as it instills in you anxiety and panic instead of objectivity. As an aside, I earned $5k with them that month and in my own personal accounts that didn't restrict me, with the same position size, I earned $15k. Every day the performance coach called me over a loss, I couldn't help but laugh as I told him that I was forced to stop out with TopStep because of their parameters but that my personal accounts were going to be profitable -- and the next day, by simply just holding onto the position, they were.

    P.S. This was before they recently updated their rules to make it more difficult. With the revised rules on their website, I would honestly be surprised if more than 2% of attempts passed their Combine/FTP programs. This is why OneUp is such a threat to them, why they've attempted suing them, etc., and that is because OneUp's parameters are far more realistic and favorable for 'real' traders to perform on and as a result, will naturally attract more market share.
  15. Oilfutures, you should post this in the TST thread too, because it is very informative and it tells more about TST than OneUp.

    Honestly, I don't think OneUp really wants to back traders, they are after the fees, plain and simple. Proofs are:

    -They copied the combine rules literally, and they made even more categories (5). 2 should be perfectly enough.
    -They also misstate the value of their combines. If they wanted to perfect TST, they had the chance to call it as it is, a 5-15K account.
    -If someone wants to back a trader and the trader does have real money profitable result, he should be able to shortcut and not to do a silly combine.
    -This not carrying positions over silliness also has to stop. The real money is in swing trading...

  16. I don't think that there's anything wrong in having an evaluation fee. I think the ideal would be a refunded evaluation fee if you pass, personally, but how a profit-seeking business runs its operations to maximize profits is up to their management. The reason why I think that OneUp is looking for traders rather than TopStep is because OneUp is basically a re-branded MES Capital. Even all of the contracts, communications, and accounts, are still using MES Capital's infrastructure. MES Capital operated for a few years and never took a dime from anyone nor did they promote brokers, trading education courses, trading room operators, etc. If you read the blog posts on websites like 'trading schools', you'll find that Emmett verified their capital source, verified the existence of subsidiary accounts for trading candidates, and discovered that MES Capital was running at a significant loss.

    I believe that MES Capital found out the hard way the reality that most traders lose and took on a TopStep scouting model in order to reduce risk and recoup their losses, while also staying committed to finding the 'real' traders -- the 2% who earn the other 98% combined. I would imagine that only a handful of each company's population is successful, but those successful traders are so talented -- in concept, think analogously of outliers like Olympic athletes, computer scientists like Bill Joy, etc. -- that they earn more than the hundreds of other traders combined. Before OneUp, TopStep had a monopoly on this business model, so it only makes sense that the first competitor (OneUp) to enter this market would have a similar layout.

    Otherwise, I agree with most of your other points. I believe the pursuit of fees is the primary objective and finding the unicorn trader is the secondary goal. The current margin for CL is around $3k so yes, you're not receiving a $150,000 account, you're receiving 15 CL contracts which is the equivalent of a $45,000 account, etc. I await the day that a new competitor really shakes up the industry and allows swing trading as you're absolutely right, the only true way to make 'real' money [AKA, millions of dollars] trading is swing trading with optimal entries/exits and not scalping ticks day trading [AKA, earning hundreds or thousands].

    One thing I will say with the track record for auto-acceptance though, is unless it's audited, results can be easily faked with photoshop, running multiple demo/shadow accounts simultaneously so that you're actually delta neutral but only show the profitable account, the list goes on. I think that requiring a trader to work in the system first is ideal to show the company the traders' performance and results in an environment that would be most similar to trading live.

    At any rate, I've not confirmed a payout yet, so all of this remains just conjecture until I have actual proof/validation. Hopefully I'll have an answer to everyone by next week.
  17. Funny you say OneUp must be backing traders, because they used to do that as ES Capital. Yet:

    TST: Has been in business for 7 years and mostly makes money from fees.

    MES: Went out of business after a few years by backing traders.

    Clearly, the better business model is TST's, what is sad really/sad reality. Now you might argue that now MES/OneUp is trying to mix the 2 models, and it is possible, but it seems to me if they want to stay in business they have to rely on the fees more than on the trading profits...

  18. Both companies use the same rhetoric to attract potential customers, and that is that their chief objective is scouting for talent & funding the traders who pass their evaluations. Obviously you're right & the real money is in collecting evaluation fees, as there are far more people who lose in the evaluations because of failure to manage risk/parameters, than gain, which is why some estimate that TopStep brings in millions of dollars of profit per year (not from traders' compensation, but from the bottom line of evaluation fees); not too shabby for a privately owned company.

    I believe the last statistic that I read sampled a few hundred people and found that 79% of TsT users had spent over $1.5k thus far and had never received a funded account; that's really a testament to how infeasible their combine/FTP programs are. Furthermore, truthfully, as harsh as this sounds, the demographic of the population that 'needs funding' is also probably worse traders [the assumption here is that people in desperate need of money to trade are on average more uneducated, have less income, have more debt and insolvency, more risk-taking behavior etc.]. I like to say that this kind of business model attracts and propagates traders who are closer to gambling/playing the lottery than it is to 'real' professional trading and fund management.

    The reason why TsT also doesn't post this kind of data [trader retention rate, etc.] is because I seriously doubt that there are more than a handful of people who stay funded longer than a few months because what happens, inevitably, is what happened to me -- trading system variance hits, you encounter a drawdown [which might I add is perfectly normal, natural, and acceptable], but because withdrawals count as losses, your draw down triggers an account closure; your account is closed before your statistical market advantage allows for the recoup of losses.

    What I was referring to above though in regards to philosophy is that if you compare TsT to OneUp, I think that OneUp's philosophy to discover the 'real talent' is purer and more genuine. I base this off three primary facts:

    1)* the metrics like drawdown, daily loss limit, etc., are more favorable with OneUp. In the $150k account, for example, these parameters are better by >$500 -- this doesn't sound like a lot but actually is more favorable by ~10%-20%, giving you much more wiggle room to navigate with. Considering during times like this you're probably only trading 1-2 contracts, this is giving you an extra 25-50 ticks per day of wiggle room to recoup your losses -- this is A LOT of wiggle room to work with.
    2) you can hit your daily max loss limit and live to trade again, you don't automatically fail the evaluation/have your live account closed prematurely like with TsT.
    3)** your withdrawal threshold, although unfortunate that you can't withdraw money as fast as TsT, actually is similar in concept to other established companies in the sense that you buy-in/have seed money. This truthfully does give you a better chance at account longevity as it secures your drawdown so that you most likely [assuming you are the consistent trader that they're looking for] won't have your account prematurely closed due to inevitable trading system variance after you've been tempted to withdraw money as fast as possible. This prevents the kind of desperation behavior of earn $1k, withdraw $1k, have a drawdown, panic, account closed and instead supports the behavior of withdraw money patiently with the knowledge that you have $5k vested with them as a safety net. The former makes someone feel disposable with TopStep, someone that only works for a few weeks or months before being ejected, the latter makes someone feel like they actually have some skin in the game with the firm and can expect to work there for many years.

    * Yes, I propose that even with buying power of 15 contracts, the person still only trades with 3-5 during the good times and 1-2 during the bad times.
    ** You're eligible to withdraw this money if you want to leave OneUp, so it's not like the company keeps this forever. Rather, it's like as I said, the money is simply vested and solidifies the trader's safety net to prevent the trader's desire of taking out profit cloud their judgement with respect to risk management and discipline.
  19. Don't say this in the community someone will say your being negative and One up will keep you out. This is part of what I was trying to discuss in the One Up community. Basically being a profitable trader takes time (1) 30 day evaluation doesn't really prove anything. Most people take years just to figure out what trading method they are going to use let alone becoming profitable. Assuming they are legit One up is great but the very generous rules lead me to believe that something is up and simply wanted proof from the "community". Community members that they have been funded eased my mind and then claims to have been paid but when I saw that some were having issues with seeing their orders in the book my suspension came back. One up could have simply responded with what oilfutures2017 did that we reserve the right to start you on demo but you will still be paid as if it was a live account instead of deleting my post asking if any funded traders are able to see their limits in the book. But anyway this was just my experience with them to warn traders that they dont appear to be using a real account which may not matter if One Up pays you consistently but I'm not sure why a company trying to make money would consistently give away money to someone trading on a demo unless they have a model saying they will make money anyway in the long run. I would love it oilfutures2017 would post if he has gotten paid. Thanks for you feedback

  20. I've received this mail from OneUp when i asked about the switching between live and demo.

    "As you are aware, OneUp Trader does NOT directly fund traders. We are a recruiting and trader placement company and we work with multiple funding partners, hence we don't control or see how they treat their account, what security measures they have in place, or risk parameters placed on the accounts to mitigate risk.

    Once a trader is funded, it's out of our hands and all questions from their traders are directed at them. Only funded traders have access to their funding source and they answer all their questions."

    So basically i read this as a trader has no idea what will happen next, no idea when a funded partner will get rid of you, etc ...
  21. As I spoke about in my prior posts, I already confirmed that 1) your initial managed account with OneUp after the passed evaluation phase remains in a simulated trading environment and 2) that OneUp reserves the right in their contract to switch your managed account between live and demo at their discretion but still compensates the trader regardless if the results were obtained in the live or demo account.

    I can now confirm that after requesting a payout, I received a wire transfer the very same day for the amount requested. In fact, the entire process took less than an hour. I want to reiterate for emphasis that my results were obtained in a simulated trading environment [as evidenced by the fact that liquidity didn't show up in the order book] but that I was still compensated fairly as per my contractual agreement. So far, my experience with OneUp has been remarkable in virtually every aspect.

    That said, I still have no idea [nor have I inquired, so don't view this as sketchy as I honestly have not asked] on when my account will be converted to live, if ever. I would imagine that if the trader is consistently withdrawing money from demo, and OneUp is obviously losing significant amounts from this, that they would simply switch you to live as you've undeniably proven yourself.

    Moving forward, I will update this thread on my continued experiences, but as of now, I could not be happier. We'll see if and how this changes as I earn more money [tens of thousands, for example] in order to see the true longevity and legitimacy of OneUp. I say this because since I'm an early adopter of the platform, I could still be paid currently even if it were an illegitimate enterprise. So far, it does appear legitimate, however.
  22. I read your post with interest. The first piece of bold text is what concerns me going back into their funded accounts. I didn't enjoy the eyes on me late last year at all and the annoying phone calls. By the way, I know EXACTLY who that 'arrogant prick' is!!!!

    A bit confused as to why you think the rules make it more difficult? They have personally made things much easier for me.

  23. That's overwhelmingly the consensus of opinion elsewhere, too.

    The changes were apparently aimed at increasing Combine pass-rates and certainly seem to have had that effect.

    Good to see you posting here again, James. :cool:
  24. Good to see you(literally!) too Xela!

    More than the Combine, it's the FTP adjustment that's a life-saver for me. No more must-be-positive-after-10-days nonsense means I can actually use the draw down I paid for. That and the indefinite duration of FTP, previously 60 days tops, makes this less like gambling and more like actual trading.

    I do agree though with some of the other comments re: size of draw down and it's relation to per trade risk (even a 6 tick stop on CL is 4.4% risk/trade) and not being able to carry trades from one session to another does stop you from taking part in some great moves...but I intend to fix the first issue by simply building a bigger cushion than the initial DD offered.

  25. Yes - indeed. It looks much more similar to actual live trading now, as well as increasing the proportion of applicants successfully being funded.

    Makes sense, of course. Looking forward to good news from you. :)
  26. I was basing it off the FTP profit target and drawdowns. Maybe my memory is a bit foggy but in the past, at least with the $50k combine, you only needed to earn about $1k in the FTP program as your profit target to succeed whereas now it's $3k. That moves the ideal profit objective from $100/day on average for 10 days to $300/day on average for 10 days. That's a 200% increase in the required profit objective -- that's enormous! As an aside, I fully agree that the 10-day rule to have an account balance above zero was completely unreasonable and bogus. Anyways, I also believe that in the past the daily and weekly loss limits for that account were 1.5-2k whereas now they're both 1k. So, how FTP is more difficult now than it was in the past is that you now need to earn substantially "more money" while reducing your risk "even more" substantially. Those parameters are not really realistic nor if someone trades like that will they ever make a decent income -- you'll realistically never make hundreds of thousands or millions trading like that, only hundreds.

    Where this becomes almost completely unachievable is that the max "weekly" drawdown is $1k, as in you can't lose $1k consecutively or else you can't trade for the entire week. I can't tell you how many times a week I have an unrealized loss of $1k using 3 contracts. That's only ~33 ticks. Oil whipsaws 33 ticks probably at least a dozen times a week. If you're using physical stops and stopping out every 33 ticks you're almost certainly never making money trading. Not to mention how many times I'm red on Monday/Tuesday [a weekly bull or bear trap] just to make it all back and more on Wednesday/Thursday/Friday; with TsT's arbitrary weekly loss limit, if you do poorly on Monday you might not be able to trade for the next 4 business days and miss out completely on potential moves you otherwise would have won on.

    With OneUp, in contrast, you'll note that there is no arbitrary FTP component nor is there an arbitrary weekly loss limit, only a daily loss limit. You'll furthermore note that hitting the drawdowns with TsT is an automatic account closure whereas with OneUp your positions are simply closed and that you're allowed to survive to trade another day.

  27. Sure, but that's consistent with their target market, I think?

    Their service is targeted at people with trading skills but without capital to trade their own accounts.

    Making "hundreds" must be a pretty good deal, to those people? They can't do it on their own, after all, because they can't trade at all without backing? This is surely TST's market?

    There's a reason they publish their blog in Russian as well as English, too? Their lists of successfully funded traders certainly seems to include plenty of people from Ukraine, etc.?

    I trade CL a bit, but it's only my "distant second choice" of instrument. (I suspect NQ is far more suitable for TST trading than CL?) Or that their answer to your observation above, which I don't doubt at all of course, would maybe be "trade 1 contract, not 3"?

    I think it's maybe a little odd to be comparing TST with OneUp in some ways: TST have been established for many years, funded many hundreds of traders and paid out very reliably, after all. OneUp, I think I'm right in saying, is a brand new business that hasn't yet paid out a single funded trader, and doesn't even fund people themselves, anyway?
  28. Aye, there's the rub.

    If you had $150,000 of your own capital in your account, and lost $1k on Monday, would you stop trading for the rest of the week, even though the opportunities presented themselves? I didn't think so.
  29. Their service is not targeted at the people with trading skills but without the capital contribution to trade their own accounts. Their service is targeted at the demographic of people who 'think' they possess adequate trading skills [based on feelings like arrogance and narcissism, no proven track record or statistical market advantage, at all] but don't have the sufficient capital contribution to trade their own accounts.

    These people are, on average, the reckless risk-loving people who will keep chasing a dream by dumping monthly recurring subscription payments into TsT's hamster wheel infrastructure without actually learning absolutely anything because TsT's parameters do not encourage nor support learning how to trade 'for real'. More likely than not, this demographic is probably less educated [not possessing bachelors/masters/PHDs], has more debt/insolvency [credit card payments to TsT], and less income. This is analogous to gambling and not true portfolio risk management. That's a big distinction because their service doesn't truly scout for good traders, rather they're chiefly concerned with maximizing combine fee revenue while reducing funded trader risk as much as possible.

    If this weren't the case, TsT would post statistics on combine/FTP applicant success rate, trader longevity and retention, median trader earnings, etc., and would also have more favorable risk parameters. There would be less marketing and advertising of mediocrity and their environment would contain a vibrant community of traders posting their successes more frequently/mentoring others.

    Nor am I saying that, by the way, that OneUp is the answer; rather, they're only slightly better and have implemented only a few more favorable rules over TsT. What are some of these rules that I'm talking about? Well, to start, refunding the evaluation fee if you passed should be an industry standard if your objective truly is to scout for the best traders [neither TsT nor OneUp does this]. Next, a trader should not be paying the monthly data fees [OneUp doesn't charge the trader monthly data fees but TsT does]. Next, there should not be daily loss limits, weekly loss limits, drawdowns, etc. -- you should be given, according to a selected account size, an amount of buying power, a profit objective, a time objective, and a drawdown that is NOT trailing. The trader should either pass or fail within these parameters [neither OneUp or TsT does this purely, but OneUp does it better]. As you continue to show promise, your funded account increases in size and as you do poorly your funded account is reduced in size. In addition, you should be able to trade all reports if desired and hold overnight to allow for swing trading; specifically, you should be able to hold positions until the 5pm eastern close instead of the current ~4:15pm limit [neither OneUp nor TsT does this, though OneUp does allow for report trading during the evaluation]. That's just some of the rule changes that would turn this business model from "farm evaluation fees" to "discover real trading talent".

    Moving onto your other comments, sure, in impoverished and limited areas around the world in which the cost of living is significantly lower, then earning a few hundred in the united states denomination is acceptable. Sure, some people even in top producing nations [GDP] like USA, find it acceptable to earn a few hundred a week. However, for 'real' trading, this is an embarrassment; 'real' trading should be earning 20 ticks/day on average minimum with a position size in CL of at least 5. If you have any real talent at all you should be trading at least 10-20 CL. This should be $1k/day or about $250k/year minimum and if you have any real talent you should be earning far more than this. If you're not, it suggests you've hit a personal ceiling, and you need to continue improving. Also, yes, the person can trade 1 instead of 3 but it gets back to my first point -- making a few hundred a week with 1 contract as a CL trader is very limiting, mediocre, and is quite frankly pathetic to anyone who is a 'real' trader.

    P.S. I am a funded trader with MES Capital [OneUp's funding partner] and I have been paid. Yes, OneUp is new. No, MES Capital is not new. Yes, they could still be illegitimate. As of now, however, my experiences have shown otherwise. In my opinion, in the 'funding traders' market/industry in which only OneUp and TsT exists, I find OneUp better for the consumer.
  30. Can somebody answer this please? Hello? ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY-THOUSAND DOLLARS in your trading account. Lose $1k, and your career is over? OMFG.

  31. And your comments there are, quite frankly, very insulting to people who make money on their own dime with just ONE CONTRACT. Yes, JUST ONE CONTRACT! In CL! Yes, it HAS BEEN DONE!

    You see, some people out here in the real world are scared shitless about losing OUR OWN MONEY. We are not proppers, we are not fakers. We're the beat of the drum that drives the world. We are the ones who risk our own money to trade. We're not fakers, we're not frauds. We are, the "are". You dig? Man?
  32. This is actually something I forgot to mention in my prior post but wanted to talk about. This is incredibly deceptive marketing. The simple truth is that you're not being given $150,000. Rather, you're trading an account with buying power equal to lot size of 15 which changes in nominal value depending on the instrument(s)/market you're trading. With CL, for example, that's about $45,000 if one were to go through 'normal' brokers. If one were to go with a deep discount broker, or something similar, that could push the nominal value as low as ~$7,920.

    With OneUp, the 'real risk' is thus probably about ~11.1%.

    Both companies should remove the $ denomination and include only lot size, as the only people fooled by the $ denomination are complete amateurs who almost certainly will be the ones failing the evaluations.
  33. *clucks*

    With $150,000, I could trade 150 contracts on a day-basis. And I have " a normal broker". But I am not stupid enough to do it, to attempt to trade all max everything on one instrument for max gain super death kill must get all bonus. Y'all and your "nominal values". You guys are silly!
  34. My post said nothing about people ['the working middle class'] trading their own personal accounts and only having the ability to trade 1 CL. Everyone has to start somewhere and scale up. My post(s) relate to the 'funding traders' market which presently only includes TsT and OneUp. In specific relation to TsT, their parameters are unfavorable for 'real' 'professional' trading and will not allow a consumer of their product to truly succeed and 'scale up' with longevity, certainly nowhere near the magnitude that their marketing/advertising promotes.

    Instead of paying TsT in perpetuity through their hamster wheel policies, you're far better off saving your money and eventually risking your own money in the market versus paying TsT exorbitant combine/monthly data fees with parameters that will likely handcuff you and teach you bad habits.

    P.S. Trading is not a part-time job, it's a career that requires absolute devotion and complete commitment. I'll reiterate this for emphasis: you can't work another job and trade on the side, you'll never succeed. You need to be at the computer, putting in your hours of hard-work & screen time, to truly 'learn' and 'adapt' to professional trading. If you can't do this, you're not at the point in your life to be a trader.

    Nowadays, the general population has been completely 'liberalized' with Social Justice policy. It's "nice" for peoples' "feelings" if "anyone" can trade. That is what TsT promotes -- that "anyone" has the potential to become a successful trader. No, not "anyone" can trade. In fact, only about 2-3%, maybe less, of people are actually successful at trading long-term. Don't confuse statistics with "feelings".
  35. Nominal value. Teehee. I'm a futures folk, so all that nominal notational stuff applies not to me. Happy trails out there!

  36. If you really want someone to answer it, the answer's no - that's complete nonsense: it's not what happens at all!

    (But I don't think you did really want someone to answer it, did you? You just wanted grotesquely to misprepresent TST's service - I have no idea why.)
  37. lol $9k/month is what is expected from a $150k account 15 lots at most brokerages have $500 -$1000 margins 15k+4.5k(drawdown) would enable you to trade this size this can be saved in a year or 2. TST doesnt lend itself to keeping good traders for long maybe they will start here if they didnt want to risk their own money but after about a year or so I would think they would start to look elsewhere to get better funding terms. I'd love to see the list of traders and how long they last with TST.

    OneUp sent me a 25% off coupon(automated message) for them giving out $5,000,000 in funded accounts. I can't use it since I'm blocked though

  38. TST doesn't need help in the misrepresenting department, and we have a good idea why. Their given account size is 1/10 in real life but that just doesn't sound sexy...

    And that is the same with OneUp, thus they are most likely scammers too. A real backing firm would be honest and modest about the account size...
  39. It seems like the obvious fix to your problem is simply to sign up on their website under a new email. I would be highly surprised if they "banned" your entire person, especially considering that your "ban" was pretty unfair in my opinion [as you said in your earlier posts, you were simply asking questions, although maybe asking for peoples' personal account details is ban-worthy under their rules, I don't know]. I don't know why, but I honestly feel like you were censored for whatever reason. Anyways, I doubt that their systems are sophisticated enough to identify the same credit card used, ban your IP address, etc., and so registering under a new email would suffice.

    One could say that OneUp is a scam from this dubious/shady censorship situation, but if you were to give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe they don't want their 'uneducated' new traders explicitly knowing that they're still on demo nor do they want this information revealed to the public [potential customers]. I'm sure a far fewer amount of people would be interested in OneUp if they advertised their service as the first evaluation plus yet another month+ secondary evaluation. Maybe if this information were revealed it would completely stop people from trusting them and participating in the evaluation in the first place, even though, like the contracts state, they still pay you compensation regardless if your results were obtained live or demo*.

    Perhaps they only want traders smart enough to have actually read the contract and, like myself, discover the relevant clauses. Anyways, clearly having a new funded trader start on demo without being explicitly told that they're still on demo maximizes profit and reduces risk. This is basically OneUp's version of TsT's FTP: if the trader fails while on demo, no harm no foul, but also if the trader thinks it's live they'll take it more seriously. After a period, whether this be time or profit based, after you've proven yourself and established a track record, I'm sure OneUp will convert the account to truly live. There is no way OneUp is going to have you stay on demo if you're consistently withdrawing $1k+/week -- you're losing more money for them then if you were a bad trader, lol.

    * I would find OneUp much more shady if their contracts had not specifically mentioned the aforementioned information that compensation is based on results obtained in demo or live environments. I would also find it more shady if I had requested a withdrawal and been sent around a loop without ever receiving it. Instead, I requested a withdrawal and received it the very same day. We'll see how this changes in the future but as of now OneUp's funding/withdrawal process is completely legitimate for me. In addition, according to my bank statement, the wire was received from the actual funding partner -- Mes Capital LTD, which is based in the United Kingdom (UK phone numbers, etc.) -- so it actually is the 'real' "business bank account" that is wiring funds.

    If you think about it, they basically max risk $5k for every new trader on a truly 'live' account for the $150k/15 lot evaluation. This is reduced as the trader has a trailing drawdown. So, if a good trader on demo earns $5k without it being from a live environment, OneUp is straight-up losing $5k from their bottom line. I suppose OneUp's business model suggests that statistically not many traders have this kind of longevity and that OneUp would rather take the gamble that less than 3% perform to this degree and that 97% of people fail. It's like saying 97 out of 100 people pay $500 and ultimately fail -- OneUp earns $48.5k -- while only 3 people make it and earn $15k. Oneup is thus still making >$33k while basically completely reducing their actual risk. And, by virtue of their philosophy, they've now discovered the top 3% of traders who, after being converted to live, are now more likely to continue performing and earn them massive 20% commissions on tens of thousands of dollars of continued profit off of their suggested continued positive performance.

    It's easy to see how: say you have an account size of 15 contracts, get ahead of yourself, and trade 5+. On good days, sure, you're making a lot -- every 50 ticks is $2500 profit. But you're probably desperate to withdraw and always keep your account near $5k [or less, if it's a new account that has yet to reach this amount]. But say you're in the Oil market and on a bad day you lose 50 ticks. You just lost $2500, half the drawdown. Say you lost 70 ticks. You just lost $3500, the entire daily loss limit. Say you traded more size and managed your account poorly -- say you traded TEN contracts recklessly and somehow lost 50 ticks -- that's your entire evaluation or funded account wiped out. This is observable even easier by the fact that you can trade reports with the evaluation but not the funded account -- it's laughably easy to blow up accounts on being wrong on a single EIA report; those people who can't management risk will ultimately blow up their accounts before making a single withdrawal.

    How many people can truly operate and manage an account professionally on this level? Like I said, as of now, I believe that OneUp is completely legitimate and that they understand the brutal realities of trading -- that truly less than 3% of people will succeed, that even 'funded traders' blow up their accounts within a month or two.
  40. I may have my wife try them out I actually don't really have time to concentrate on a demo account right now I manage (2) of my accounts options and futures and my kids long term account which actually takes alot of my time. Sometimes missing entries in my futures account. Yes that is the fact most people will fail at these combines but as you have said so far at their current business model you have a decent chance of being paid at OneUp for now. Can I ask what commissions and fees they are charging you?

  41. I'm more of a positional swing trader at heart, so my trades are planned in advance, and I usually use limit orders to execute strategies, ideally around MM stop run areas. Sometimes it takes many many hours to get a fill, sometimes I completely miss out. I say this because I also trade separate personal accounts but that it's easier for me to manage an additional oneup one due to the aforementioned -- kind of like having multiple browser tabs open simultaneously and you only adjust occasionally.

    To answer your question, the main fees you should be concerned with are monthly account fees + commission. Mes Capital covers the account fee whereas TopStep separately charges you $85 per month for every market you trade in. For me with CL it's $4.72 commission per round trip per contract and you can look up their commission schedule for other instruments on their website under 'funded trader commissions'. That's about the same price as I pay with TD Ameritrade so it's pretty fair in my opinion.
  42. I withdrew money from them too. I cannot mention who the seeder is as I signed a contract, you better hope they don't find out who you are. However, I received the money a day after. I have no problem with my seeder. oilfutures2017, I am a professional trader with over 20 years experience. I hear what you're saying and fyi it's normal prop business. How do they measure risk if they don't do what they do. This is my first post and I like OneUp and like the prop company i'm trading for. I just want to also mention something that's totally different from TST. I personally never took TST b/c a friend of mine had a very bad experience with them and you can find hundreds of videos online that share the same reason.

    - TST withdraw the drawdown after 10 days! That means if you are trading a $100k account and make $200 after 10 days, then that becomes your drawdown. Seriously!
    - TST require you to trade on their schedule and you must participate and trade in the chatroom. They breathe down your neck whenever in a position.
    - TST kicks you out whenever they feel like it for no reason.
    There are many other reasons including the silly weekly drawdown, chatroom only trading, if they call you and you don't pick up your out!
    As for the partners of OneUp, I haven't heard a word from them. Not sure if it's only me, but perhaps oilfutures2017 can confirm that for us.

    I just had to share my experience and hope it helps you guys.
  43. I like the fact that people are getting paid and the requirements at one up are straight forward I just don't think the trader friendly model will last the topstep super trader mode will generate more income for these type of unregulated companies. Think about it they have rich people looking for traders with a 15 day track record to trade $50-$150k of their money only want a 20% cut of the winnings, don't require the funded traders to have a license or really know anything. If you look at any hedge fund startup story you will the stark difference in what they have to do in order to get rich clients such as a 3+ year track record of profitability, regulations, ability to contact you about any trade you have on, etc. again while they are paying it doesn't matter unless you have a strategy where you try to test the bias of the markets with limit orders.
  44. Hi my friend! How are you going with them?? Are you good at your evaluation??
  45. Tell us when you cam withdraw!

  46. Says yet another brand new, first-time poster.

    Funny how almost everyone recommending OneUp, here and elsewhere, is a brand new member.

    And how their experiences differ so much in every way from those of any longstanding members who have already earned any credibility and respect.

    That's malicious, defamatory bullshit. At least it clarifies your agenda, though. :rolleyes:

  47. Thanks for the info! By the way, I've heard about some funding companies, 'cause here un latin america it's kind of difficult to get the money for a decent account, so that's why guys like me are looking for some funding, to get an account to be profitable and trade without expensive loans. It's knid of sad, but it's the true!
  48. There are a few updates that I want to mention.

    1) In regards to your comment, I would suggest that you read through this thread in its entirety; I have already posted various comments throughout this thread relating to your question. To summarize, yes, I have confirmed withdrawal(s) with OneUp, and yes, they are [thus far] legitimate.
    2) Furthermore, I have actually withdrawn multitudes of times with OneUp and received the withdrawals same-day via wire transfer without a problem.
    3) To be quote honest, I'm not sure when this happened, but I can confirm that my 'funded' account was converted from 'demo' to 'live'. I am confident in this because liquidity now updates appropiately in the DOM whereas it didn't in the past. To reiterate for emphasis, I'm not exactly sure when this actually occurred, but assume this occurred after I had proven consistency/withdrawn a sufficient amount of capital. This is very meaningful because it solidifies the fact that OneUp has a verified pool of trading capital to be used as a resource for funded traders; by extension, the entire business is indeed legitimate.

    From my experiences thus far, OneUp appears to operate as I had suggested throughout this thread, and that is that only the cream of the crop -- the top 3% -- actually move on to be 'truly funded'. The others, who can't manage money, simply fail.
  49. I also trade my own personal accounts but because of OneUp now have access to ~$45,000 in contracts [15 lots of position size] that I did not possess prior to becoming a funded trader with them. What did I have to do to access this? Simply paying a small, incredibly immaterial, fee and about a month of time. To date, I've already generated over a 1,000% ROI from my initial fee with them and it has only been a month.

    Main point: Trading your personal account is not mutually exclusive with simultaneously operating a funded account at TsT/OneUp.

  50. I'll tell you from experience: the best traders and fund managers don't post on social media. The best traders don't waste time [the opportunity cost of research and time better spent managing actual positions] posting or reading non-sense, getting stuck in anonymous and circular online debates, etc. The best traders have proven their own value, proven the value of their trading system and statistical market advantage through a track record, and only pay attention to their systems' signals -- following the charts and their risk management, etc. They ignore the 95%+ of people who have no idea what they're talking about despite 'sounding' articulate/intelligent/wise and focus on themselves, the true 5% of the population whom systematically win.

    In other words, you ideally want to talk to people on social media who post less, not more. You having over 1,000 posts is meaningless to me and certainly does not impress/project upon me experience, knowledge, insight, credibility, authority, etc. The only thing that impresses me is audited financial statements by a third party representative which show, undeniably, a statistical market advantage and history of profitability.

    P.S. You may ask, then, why I post infrequently here. It seems like hypocrisy/paradox. Rather, it's because I joined OneUp on inception before any information was in the public domain. I basically became a funded trader as fast as one possibly could. Because I was the only 'veteran' of OneUp, I was the only one qualified from real-life experience to post about OneUp and found it my civil duty as a maven to do so. I began answering the questions that many people had but only a few knew the answer to, basically as a public service. Now that I've answered all of the concerns people have had, I only occasionally post when I 1) receive the email notification and 2) have some free time.
  51. I appreciate your input you have confirmed what I suspected about not trading live immediately and clarified some claims about being paid made in the One up community while i was a part of it.

  52. Excuse me oilfutures2017, you're not the only "veteran" with them. Other than that, I agree to what you have shared.

    What I like most about them is the transparency. You know what you're getting!
  53. Can I ask anyone who is with this company and has been funded if there are options for larger amounts of funding or is it a gradual/incremental increase only?

    I'm asking because I have some money and can easily stake myself (and currently have) but am interested in further funding if it is substantial. I'm not really interested in gradual increases because I can already do that myself.

  54. $650k is the largest account based on the website

  55. Love your comments, very educational. I had similar experience with TST and have been toying with trying OneUp. I have had a funded account for a few months now, making regular money (just grinding everyday), nothing huge, when I saw nothing huge, averaging about $750 a week trading the ES. However, want really got under my skin was the performance coaches calling me if I had an off day all the time. Most of the time I am profitable 8/10 days, however the coaches still ring you and give you the 3rd degree.
  56. I can concur with everything you have said. Like I mentioned before, I was a funded trader for a few months with TST, just long enough to withdraw my funds and prop up my private account. I agree the most annoying was the phone calls.
  57. Hi, there is a clause mentioned in oneuptrader website like the one mentioned below. I want to know whether the funding is assured or they may say no for some unknown reason and refund.


    Hit your target, follow the rules, and you will be GUARANTEED placement with our funding partners with the SAME account size as your evaluation or we refund you 100% of your Evaluation costs.
  58. It looks like its assured though the probability is on their side that most evaluation accounts will fail to hit the target and meet the requirements. And then even if someone does make it they have them trading on sim until they feel the person is a really good trader(until they lose enough money betting against the trader) then move them to live even then they are only risking the draw down. More than likely the "funding partner" is Oneup trader themselves. I discovered another thing about these evaluation accounts i think i mentioned it already but the trailing stop moves up on gross profits NOT net profits so if you have a $1500 trailing stop and make a gross of $1500 and your commissions are $1499 you basically have a $1 trailing stop until you fail the combine. This obviously in not in the traders interest. still the lure of trading with someone elses money will add in emotions that generally are not there in demo accounts and anyone that has actually traded will acknowledge that this is much cheaper. If you are a good low drawdown day trader you have a good chance of success. Re looking at the rules of oneup and tst its true what people have been saying the higher drawdown is the way to go which brings another set of problems you now have to net $6000/month without skill doing this consistently is highly unlikely. And since most trade the thin products to meet these numbers even if they make it to a live account they will find that getting the same fills will be very different from the demo.

  59. Hi, I recently got funded from oneuptrader and I guess I can add few cents here.There is one consistency rule in the evaluation where your highest day must be equal to the sum of the next three best days which many people ignore to look at. Once that is fulfilled, you will be funded for sure.
  60. I totally agree with you on that. The trailing max. drawdown is calculated in realtime using the paper profits which is a bit annoying. This is what happened on my first day in the live account. I took a trade in CL with 3 contracts, that moved 50 ticks in my favor and I managed to exit the trade for a 30 tick profit. But my trailing stop moved 1500 up and my profit on that trade is just 900. To be honest, I didn't know that it works this way even till I started trading the live account. Now I decided to exit the trade with limit orders till that damn thing (trailing max.drawdown )stops chasing me behind without looking for runners which is working good so far.
  61. It is a bit odd. Do you mean that trailing stop moves with unrealized profit?
  62. If your trailing stop moved 50 ticks up, how did you then not capture the full 50-tick move? Did you keep pulling the trailing stop back as the position pulled back, and then exit at 30t profit? What the heck is the point of the trailing stop then?
  63. Yeah. It is calculated based on unrealized profits.
  64. The trailing max. drawdown is calculated based on unrealized profits with MES account. My trailing stop was 30 tick in favor of my trade when market was trading at 50 tick in favor of the trade. It came down and triggered my stop, but the trailing max. drawdown moved by 1500.
  65. So they should call the "trailing max. drawdown" to something like "profit taken" minus Max Favorable Excursion.

    The terminology they are using is outrageous. Sounds like another BS method to screw people who are being conservative. They should be rewarding you for taking profits, not penalizing for not taking more.
  66. I've been with them for some time now and it's clear how the max trailing works. Like the evaluation process, it's the same when funded, therefore no surprises. You should work on money management if you ask me. You have 30-50 ticks you take it! I took the evaluation twice and withdrew 15x. I hate to say this but the key to winning here is to have a big account and trade it like a small one. MONEY MANAGEMENT!
  67. Does it mean whenever you are even in one tick profit account trailing stop moves?
  68. It is mostly about correctly reading market situation form higher TF point. Big moves do not come every day and angle of the move how far it is from MAs and so forth tells when reversal is coming. Basically, I believe trailing stop for day trader is useless. But the method of calculating account trailing stop by counting unrealized profit is a surprise. How far the move should go in one's favor to trigger trailing stop move ?
  69. You are spot on. I am trading a 100k account. I've no complaints except this one thing as this didn't allow me to hold for runners. Lesson learnt though. Till the withdrawal threshold is reached, the exits must be with limit orders as long as we are with MES capital.
  70. It moves with every tick of unrealized profits till the account reaches the withdrawal threshold. Not some good news about the company, but a new parameter to plan and work a way around with if someone is planning to trade with MES.
  71. It is not for those who trade too often...I am planning to start in May/ June 2018.
  72. Doe sit mean if one is not using trailing stop but exists trades with limit orders unrealized profit is not going to trigger account trailing stop? Only realized profit.
  73. TraderJagadeesh. I was on the $150,000 account. Let me tell you a bit about my experience and you can take note for the $100,000 account. First, everything bout the funding partners can be viewed in OneUp Trader's website which was important for me to compare with the signed contract. Second, I traded the account like I would have my personal account with maximum 2 lots and once only did I trade it with 3 lots. I kept a BIG cushion for the trailing max loss which I did not withdraw. After I reached $155,000 the trailing max loss doesn't move anymore. I took the account to $160,000 before requesting a withdrawal. I withdrew $5,000 and then again took the account to $160,000 and did the same. I made sure I kept a minimum of $2,500 for every contract I traded. So 2 contracts/lots = $5,000 ($2,500 each). This way I was leaving a lot of room for drawdowns. I hope this helps. Remember the bigger the account the more room you have and ALWAYS trade what you see!
  74. I don't understand the limit order thing you're talking about. Can you explain that as I only trade using market orders.
  75. Thanks for your advice. I appreciate that. :) I anyways blew up the live account and signed up for the 150k evaluation yesterday and decided to trade with only 2 lots. :) This is my second evaluation as well.
  76. What I meant was, just to take exits with limit order at predefined price levels so that the unrealized profits doesn't effect the max. trailing drawdown. Chip in few trades like that till the account reaches to the threshold, ie. 5k for the 150k account, and then we can trade peacefully and can expect runners as the max. trailing drawdown doesn't chase behind with unrealized profits from there on.
  77. When we exit trades at predefined price levels with limit orders rather than looking for runners, the unrealized profit will be the same as that of the profits we booked. That's what I meant..
  78. They only count realized gains(raw price difference*tick value) Im trying topsteps evaluation account now does anyone know if they automatically close positions during news events or do you have to be out yourself and if not does that mean that eliminates you from funding consideration?

  79. I've traded a live account with topsteptrader. They keep on bugging you over phone calls to flatten your position and you have to do it. If you accidentally hold a position, they will kick you out of the live account. You need to be flat yourself during the news.
  80. There is QM crude e-mini contracts which is half size of CL contract. It is less liquid and I traded it with my own money 2-3 years ago. It can be traded and used as well for those who are more conservative when it comes to position sizing and risk control. I am planning to take 50 000 evaluation trading CL only. It is either 1 CL contract or 1 QM contract per position. $2500 cushion is more than enough. I did pass Topstep combines and live preparation but traded beans. I was actually confined to beans. It was long time ago. I realize their rules had changed. Have not traded for 2 years but keeps hands on. Basically, if they count unrealized gain even starting with one positive tick there is one way only. Wait for right moment from high TF and take position. Moving stop makes no sense. Few break even trades and trailing account stop will move anyway reducing cushion. One must be right a lot to trade like this.
  81. That's why I trade with OneUp! They haven't called me, they let me do what I do. Plus I would recommend them because the rules are MUCH better and it's ONLY 15 days to get funded. There's a trader in their chat room who traded 4 days and micro scalped the remaining 11 days, what a joke and he got funded!!!!!!!!!!!
  82. This is my experience.
    I got funded twice with big accounts (150k).

    The first time my funded account was terminated for failing the scaling rule. It is very easy to make a mistake on this so watch out.

    The second time I failed to be flat on a news release that I was supposed to. The problem here is that this news was considered Medium importance by economic news so it was filtered out from my daily scan, so be careful to understand what news calendar they use.

    Have no doubt of this, They are not looking for profitable traders, my account was terminated while it was profitable without any warnings and on first strike because an honest mistake and it wont matter that the account was profitable and that I was consistently making money. I still have to see if I get paid my share of the profits in that account because I haven't received any contact yet.
    If you think that you will be able to make money consistently and withdraw money in the long term you are mistaken, that's not their business, their business is to collect fees for evaluations and get rid asap of traders who can make money. The funded account trades dont show up in the bid/ask volumes, they are not even real they are in sim, so they are not profiting from traders that make consistently money period.

    hope this helps, good luck.
  83. I contacted topstep about the news thing and its also I terminable "offense" as well. if you didnt meet the min withdrawal threshold i think your balance would have to be over 159,000 in order to qualify for a withdraw i dont know the policy if for some reason you do have a profit and get terminated probably that you get nothing knowing that the main model is for fee collection.

  84. @AHG_traderX I trade with 9 guys, 3 got funded, I'm the 4th. 2 got terminated are the two strike rule (held overnight position and the other traded news). Both of them were profitable and got paid, $190 and the other around $930. Again, I suspect this is another troll.... What calendar you talking about as they clearly do not have a calendar. It's all in the contract. WHICH FUNDING COMPANY YOU AT??
    I'll send this over to them out of curiosity.
  85. Hey @TraderMat,
    No I am not a troll, I am just sharing my experience so others understand what they are getting into. The second time the funded account has been terminated for holding a position through an economic release by mistake. This is something that is specified in the contract as you said. Some of the rules can be enforced automatically there is no need to let this to a human error but they aren't because their business is to make you go through another evaluation not to make money through paper trades (the trades are not real they are all sim in the funded account you haven't noticed). So that's the reason the long term life spam of any funded account is pretty much none. I am sure there are oneuptrader staff monitoring this thread and trying to keep their business running, are u one of them?. I won't evaluate again with them and rather to look for other options.
  86. Sadly I think out of topstep and oneup One up has better terms. Topstep will terminate if you violate the daily loss limit even though the trailing stop wasn't violated. I agree if the news shouldn't be traded it would make more sense for the company to auto flatten all positions for specific events. of course you could say the trader should know the events to.

  87. Hi caapital,
    Even when they separate the funding partners from the evaluation company, they are the same "company" and their business is collecting the fees.

    Proof of that is once you read the contract to get funded, the rules are very easy to break by mistake and even if they could enforce them automatically they won't.

    For example, being flat for news or not to scale over your size limit, but they prefer to get the notification from their system and terminate your account. I go even further, even if your account is pnl positive your funded account will be terminated breaking some of the more vanilla rules, which is very interesting "concept" for a company in theory looking for consistent profitable traders.

    The purpose of the rules in the contract is not to eliminate risk but at some point the trader to fail one of the rules which are unrelated to your pnl.

    Initially I was excited that I was going to learn some risk rules that would make me a better trader but very disappointed at the end (After getting funded and terminated twice for rules not related to the pnl) that it doesn't matter, there is no room for breaking other rules.

    I cannot speak on my experience in Topstep because I am not funded with them but I will give it a try. I asked Topstep's support what is their process if you break a rule regarding for example not being flat on a news release and their answer is that the risk manager works with you to see the case of your account, so I am guessing it is a more discretionary process. If somebody has experience of being kicked out in topstep funded account maybe they can comment if that's the case or it is another bucket shop. I am most interested to know for those rules that can be easily broken by accident what happens.

    I am sure funded traders are getting paid and all of that is legit because they have to or there won't be any case to attract more noobs to the evaluation process. But don't be mistaken some of the rules and how they are enforced are meant to terminate your account asap and not to make you a better trader. So watch out and know that it is not a long term funding business of your trading, if you are consistent drop money and when is terminated move on and be happy you won.

  88. TraderMat, i understand position must not be held into Wednesday news. What other news trader must be flat before release? NFP Fridays? What else. is there official schedule from oneup trader? on which news trader must be flat? It looks like trader must determine first of all which rules are to follow to avoid such situation of being terminated to arise.
  89. I think first of all we must ensure that no those rules broken. they have less rules than TST. I knew of a guy who was with TST for one year and then used his track record to find better option elsewhere... Scaling rule can be avoided by trading consistent size all the time and news should be planned in advance for the whole week.
    By the way, what is overnight position according to them. Can position be opened early morning before Nymex open?
  90. http://help.oneuptrader.com/knowledge_base/topics/economic-release-calendar
  91. Wow, so according to them, you can hold a position in RB futures during the inventory report, but not HO or CL futures. I guess RB just doesn't move like HO. "CRUDE OIL AND NATURAL GAS PRODUCTS - CL, QM, NG, QG, HO."

    Well thought out.

    Not to mention that the days of high volatility in energies seems to be happening a day later (Thursday) now than in the past. And then there is the Baker-Hughes rig count report on Friday. What about the API numbers on Tuesday? It seems that if they really wanted to reduce the risk, you would not be allowed to trade any of them, period.
  92. Thank you. I see nothing onerous. When it comes to CL there is basically two news events to be avoided one is every Wednesday and another one once a month. The only thing to be cleared is to know for sure how long before and after those releases to be flat and when after those releases trading is allowed. there is 10 sec rule too. Trader must make all things clear when starting to make attempts to get funded. Everything must be clear and included in plan.
  93. Unfortunately it is not that simple because the rule about economic releases is a lot worse now for funded accounts and it is not what their website says. You say about planning, yes you have to plan very careful when they are coming but there isn't a official calendar so good luck on not missing one, there are some events that makes it very difficult to know the exact time when they start and finish, actually I describe it as very shady rules and the pure intention is just to clean out their inventory of funded account to push them to evaluate again.
  94. I like OneUp and I have no problems with them. I mean we as a group have no problems with them. If you break a rule they give you a warning, if you do it again then your out. To me that's fair.
    AHG_traderX if you're going to help us here, then talk about things that weren't honored in the contract. You need to pay attention to the rules which are similar to that on OneUp website. Similar but not the same with the funding partner I have. I can only speak about my funding partner not others. I trade CL and the rules are the same, stay away from inventory and FOMC that's it for CL!
  95. If you break a rule they give you a warning it is discretionary, they only apply it if they want.

    Don't get me wrong, yes the rules are in the contract but the rules are worse than the first time I signed it, to my point that they are cleaning funded accounts from their inventory.

    And as I said those rules are not the same in Oneup's website (probably explaining why they are 2 "different" companies to avoid legal issues).

    At the end to make profitable their business model as it is not profiting from "paper" cash trades from funded traders, it is about the ratio of evaluations fees vs what they pay to "funded" accounts.

    Also if you notice the contract is pretty short term?, I am curious if anybody has stayed funded beyond the duration of the contract and if they have "renew" their contract.

    Btw there is only one funding partner, everybody I know who got funded did with the same funding partner. I am sure the "split" between both companies it is just to avoid some legal issues, same thing tracers companies do because there are things they are not allowed to do so they just split in 2 "different" companies.

    For those who are for the challenge, if you get funded , which btw is fairly easy with the rules in the the evaluation as u trade full size with fairly no restrictions, memorize those new rules and don't be shy, hit the funding partner's support to clarify the meaning and parameters of some of them so you don't get caught by surprise and keep your expectations in check, get any money while you can and hopefully fund a cash account with a real broker. Then feel happy you got there.
  96. Never heard of this, can one of the funded traders comment on this?
  97. I apologise for interrupting the current topic of contract duration
    But, I just got my trial for 2 weeks and would like some clarification on this trailing drawdown - I have a 100k account with 3500 drawdown - If the trailing drawdown is applied to both unrealized and realized p/l - Isn't there a risk that it can close the gap and you no longer have 3500 max drawdown? - meaning that if you don't get out right at the top of a move - the trailing moves up but you got out lower - so the cushion is eroded -
    can anyone clarify?
    I want to trade the trial under a correct understanding of the set of rules
    I tried posting my question in the social room in the application but you cannot post with a trial - it says - upgrade account
    Also, with news (when funded)
    They say before, during, after major news (symbol specific) -
    So, for example FOMC statement -
    Do you have to wait until after the close to open a position ?-
    what's the definition/duration of "after"?
    Thanks in advance everybody
    This has been a very helpful resource -
    great discussion!
  98. *chuckle.* Why not ask them directly?
  99. Yes it is calculated in real time. Let's say you are at zero pnl and a trade goes your way and goes back to BE, the peak of unrealized profit that you have in that trade will be used to calculate the new min in your account (TST for example uses end of day which is fairly safer). This forces you to trail big winners or you might get caught very easily in the traildown.
    Regarding news and this is only for funded accounts as explained in their website it is one minute before and after the release that you need to be flat. The gotcha is that the new rules which are not in the website makes very difficult to know when certain events finish (I cannot give more details as is against the contract), this is where they start being very shady and show that it is a bucket shop.
  100. Cannot you ask them what news are expected today every day before trading starts and at what time? It does not sound reasonable that some news about which nobody knows make one responsible for avoiding those news. In this case they should let know when not to trade.
  101. AHG -
    Thank you for taking the time to clarify -
    I kept looking at the graph on the website and it made somewhat sense to me -
    But I saw somewhere in this thread about the unrealized P/L being used and it got me thinking -
    So, I'm good on it now -
    Yes, you have to train yourself to grab and go - or else....
    Thanks for the news "flat time" specifics -
  102. That's what I tried without any results so far unfortunately and why I have been so disappointed with their intention of making funded traders successful versus just sending them to evaluate again and getting more fees.
  103. Don't get it personal but it sounds unlikely. When one asks question what news to be avoided they have to answer. Another one is that for CL there is clearly only 2 news to be concerned about. If what you say were the real issue there would be more people coming and mentioning this. Anyway, when I start I am going to make all things clear in advance already for demo. There is basically not many news to be avoided. Often it is better to go for a walk until news are over especially on Wednesdays.
  104. Long time lurker on ET, signed up finally to comment on this thread as OneUp has done right by me. AHG sounds a little butt hurt imo, I have been funded for a few months now. They aren't trying to screw you over, esp if you are good and making money. They make the rules pretty clear and if it was something that was grey I have found that they usually give you leeway at first.

    The one guy further up on board is right, if you are a good trader and can manage your risk you just trade the bigger accounts with smaller size and you can relatively clean up if on a hot streak. From their message board you can tell the traders that blow out right away are throwing on max size on every position, which is a recipe for disaster.

    Compared to the other alternative, it's night and day. As a funded trader they leave you alone at OneUp while you get watched like a hawk at TST, after having to get through harder parameters in the first place. Also, for anyone that has made it that far in TST they do the same type of trailing stop people are crying about...
  105. Wrong again! You're such a liar. OneUp Trader in simple is a recruitment company. Whoever funds you has nothing to do with getting fees.
  106. I agree.
  107. Hello,

    if OneUp is a consumer fraud, why do anyone does a declaration to the SEC ?

    When one pays for a combine trial, they do not delive a purchase bill with their datas which is weird.

    Is there someone here who has succeeded to pass the 15 days and then to withdraw all the money earned ?

    Reading this part of the rules: http://help.oneuptrader.com/knowledge_base/topics/profit-info

    If someone choose the 50000 USD plan and makes 2500 USD of profit, he cannot withdraw the money as this is considered as the minimum amount of money to have a drawdown flat.

    Thanks for your feedback !
  108. The withdraw limit is something like TST FTP, you are still trading demo until you reach the withdraw limit. I have received my funded account last week and only traded 1 day because of the holidays. The only sad this is, by accident i ended up with a 50% split instead of an 80%. I asked oneup if i could upgrade and they said no problem, however once i completed the evaluation account i got a message the upgrade wasn't valid since this was only for evaluation accounts that haven't been traded before.
    I asked my funding partner if it would be possible to negotiate about the profit split % after some time of profitable trading, however this was declined.
    My contract also had 1 rule not mentioned anywhere on the website of OneUp, a rule which i am not to happy about. So i must say i am a bit disappointed so far.
    I am definitely stopping my account after i withdrew the first 5K, i am not going to give away 50% of my profits ...
  109. the first $5000 is 100% I think no matter what the split you pick.

  110. Wrong, with the 50% split you get 100% of the first 5K and with the 80% split you get 100% of the first 8K.
    However that was not the point here, i never wanted the 50% split in the first place, the problem is they allowed me to upgrade and then canceled it after they found out i was going to achieve the evaluation goals.
  111. I got what you were saying. I got the impression that One Up would do something like if they could ban me for asking if they are actually funding live accounts. Its like they are not confident in the combine business strategy.

  112. I am currently in a funded account, my guess is my orders will go live once i get over the withdrawal threshold.
    So far no real troubles with OneUp, only a little bit disappointed with the account upgrade situation.
    I will have to start a new evaluation with 80% split once i hit 2000$ in my current account, this way i can withdraw the 100% 5K and start a new evaluation account with 80% split.

    The extra rule OneUp never mentioned seems te be something the funded partner decided so there is nothing OneUp can do about that. Even if i knew it before i started i still would have picked OneUp over TST.
  113. Oneups rules are definitely more favorable to the trader than TST's especially the fact that they will pay you real money for trading a demo account when you first get funded and the 15 day min trading 1 stage combine

  114. Hi Folks, wondering if i can get some feedback from those guys who have gone live with OneUp. I've read all the info on their site and spoken to their helpdesk team but the answers seem very opaque about the live account and where funding comes from. My understanding is that once you pass the evaluation, you will be put in contact with the funders and a contract will be signed. Would really love to hear from guys who have gone live, what happened for them - and also if they are able to use MT4 in the Live accounts? Many thanks. James
  115. Supported platforms are on their website.
    Once you pass the evaluation account you email OneUp, they send your results to the funding partner and they contact you. From them you receive a questionnaire, just some basic questions. After the questionnaire you receive the funded trader contract, you read it, you sign it and then when you receive the account info you are ready to go. The process for me took 4 business day's.
  116. I might have lost my funded account today, i am down 1400$ on the account.
    Max DD remaining is 835$ and i need to be positive by the end of next Friday's session.
    Bad trading today, should have called it a day when i was up 500$, seconds before Flynn said he is willing to testify against trump, i forgot to adjusted my stop to break even and i wasn't sitting at my desk when it all happened. Then i made some very stupid mistakes to try to regain my profit ...
  117. Hi all,
    I know that has been said before but this trailing stop is rather annoying when doing a combine.
    I was short a few CL lots, the market went my way by 15 ticks, decided to put a breakeven stop after that....and decided to close the position at the pit close. The market continued to fall and at a time, I was +40 ticks....The market then retraced and hit my breakeven stop. Stuff happens.......BUT when I tried to go long a few minutes after, the system closed my position automatically after a 3 ticks loss !!!
    I do not see the point in being punished like this : not all strategies require to exit at +30 or +40 ticks.....how many times CL goes your way, retraces, and continue the initial trend with force. I do not see there bad trading behavior.
    So a bit angry with this way of doing.
  118. I'm curious...when you say you were not sitting at your desk when the breaking news occurred involving Flynn is willing to testify against Trump administration...

    What was so important that you needed to walk away from an open trade without adjusting your stop ?

    Did you hear about the breaking news while you were away from your desk or did you only realize what was going on when you return back to your desk ?

  119. An "emergency" with my son, its just me and him here and he began to freak out about something. I knew the Flynn news was developing at that time however there also was some positive news about the tax bill right before, so i expected the market to move up a little more.

    It was just a stupid mistake to not manage my position properly, i could have avoided a huge loss. Right before my son needed me i was looking for a good price to move my SL to, then i just forgot about it. Nothing or nobody to blame but me, stupid stupid stupid.
    However i am still going to give it my best shot next week, everything is possible.
    1400$ is 5 day's is very possible.
  120. I completely understand and can relate because I myself am a single parent.
  121. Is any of the funded traders here funded with a different funding partner then MES? Just curious.
  122. "Max DD remaining is 835$ and i need to be positive by the end of next Friday's session."

    Why? Is there a rule to be positive after number of trading days? Or it is because of the oversized losing day?
    BTW, what were you trading? ES?
  123. If you are funded with MES you have to have a positive balance after 15 day's and every 15 day's thereafter.
    The position was ES.
  124. "If you are funded with MES you have to have a positive balance after 15 day's and every 15 day's thereafter.
    The position was ES."

    It is similar to TST 10 days positive after the start rule. It calls for serious consistency and risk control.
  125. Indeed, my funded account will be evaluated tomorrow and the chance of getting back above 50K is very very small.
  126. It's possible though
  127. "Indeed, my funded account will be evaluated tomorrow and the chance of getting back above 50K is very very small."

    Did you manage to bring it back? Yesterday was an excellent day to do so.
  128. Unfortunately not. Excellent day? Not for my system :banghead:
    I might give it one more go but i am not sure yet.
  129. Yes. MES is for the amateurs and once you make enough money you'll be funded by another group I believe's based in Dubai. They switched me 2 weeks ago with everything being the same except for a new username and password. You have a direct number with a broker in Chicago.
  130. "Unfortunately not. Excellent day? Not for my system :banghead:"

    Ah, sorry. I was meaning CL and you are trading ES.

  131. I wonder, what would be this questionnaire about. Your trading style? Personal financial questions? Psychological evaluation? Thank you
  132. I'm with oneup since 2015, I never had a problem with them.

    Most successful trader will say the same thing. The sucker (97% of traders) will say it's a scam.
  133. How is one up treating you since your last post in aug.2017. Thanks for your advice
  134. Did you get paid what you were owed from oneup

  135. Please excuse my mentioning that throughout the trading forums on the web, from what I've seen, the observation above is almost always made by brand new members in their very first posts.

    It does make one wonder ...
  136. That is because it IS a "scam". Their rules are simply not realistic in the world of real trading. If you want to make trading your full-time business, then treat it as a business. Start your new business with 50-100K of real money, and know that most start-ups lose money in their first year or two.

    97% of the suckers are the same ones who didn't puzzle-out this simple mindset.
  138. Thank you very much. I plan on starting soon
  139. No, I just forgot my last username so I created another one. A lot of fake news over here, just trying to give the company great reputation. Blaming the company rule is what loser do when they lose (bad trader), suck it up respect the rules instead of saying. Oh this company is shit there are making money on bad trader, it's actually a really smart business model, 90% of trader fail so 90% of the time they are making money.