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PRIDE goeth before destruction

  1. I wanted to start a thread to discuss the hindrance or empowerment of PRIDE in the game...

    I was going to start the thread off with some of my own thoughts -- but after some reflection I think it might be a better idea to let the thread take on a life of its own; for the intention is to have an open discussion on the topic and not my particular views...

    PEACE and good-trading,
  2. Pride is a sense of worth from something that is not organically part of us, while self-esteem derives from the potentialities and achievements of the self. We are proud when we identify with an imaginary self, a leader, a holy cause, a collective body or possessions. There is fear and intolerance in pride; it is sensitive and uncompromising. The less promise and potency in the self, the more imperative is the need for pride. The core of pride is self-rejection.

    Eric Hoffer
  3. Along the same lines-" It was a great height from which to view the world, it was a great height from which to fall"
  4. One thing I think about any negative aspects for psychology is to separate it from the actual trade. But seems to be positive for how you approach trading or yourself as a trader, to an extent.

    I'm proud to be a trader and to be trading. But there's none of that pride for my trades.
  5. "PRIDE goeth before destruction." The old maxim is applicable not only to trading, but essentially to the adventure of life.

    It can be destructive because the motive for pride, more often than not, is a false premise.

  6. Pride is a deadly sickness ; prefer the cure as follows.

    ''The best traders are humble'' accurate paraphrase of Mark Weinstein, nickname -high percentage trader. Solomon said the same, more or less.:cool:
  7. I wonder if "Pride goeth before destruction" is an example of two types of biased perception.

    First, I suspect a visibility bias -- prideful people make themselves more visible and that makes their falls more noticeable. Would anyone notice if the invisible "millionaire next door" blew up their account on a bad futures play? Thus our data on the correlation between pride and destruction is skewed.

    Second, I suspect a causal bias -- prideful people are more likely to attempt ambitious risky endeavours to feed their pride. Thus prideful people are more likely to attain the great heights that make their fall so notable. Could we not say "Lack of pride forgoeth construction" to go with "Pride goeth before destruction"??

    Hmmm.... so does pride really increase the probability of the destruction of a successful trader?

    Maybe the real issue is a distinction between two types of pride: an ambitious forward-looking pride that does what needs to be done to achieve success vs. an self-congratulatory backward-looking pride that presumes that the world will bend to that prideful, egotistical person. Ambitious pride is good in a trader since it will drive them to continually change, adapt, and improve their trading. Self-congratulatory pride is disastrous when the cold cruel calculus of the market refuses to bend for the egotistical trader.

    Like all adages, "Pride goeth before destruction" holds a dangerous falsehood and an interesting truth.

    Wishing all ambition without hubris,
  8. I agree. It's probably a principle of trading. There isn't much room for pride in an environment where not having to know is the best policy.

  9. Most of the good traders understand that their self worth is not identified or defined by their net worth.

    Pride should not be a part of the trading equation.

  10. Can anyone stay humble after a streak of winning trades? How? :confused:

    Or is that another answer that only "price and time" will give us?

  11. You answered your own question my friend. It takes a lot of sharp kicks in the teeth to finaly catch on. Ahhhh Strange Fruit, you plant the seeds yourself :)

    PEACE and good-trading,
  12. "Price and Time"???? Cycles? Periodic Repetition? Geometric Angles? Astological Pitch? Natural Price and Time Center Resistance? Oh... wrong thread... LOL

    What about liking yourself? Is that pride? Doing best for yourself, isn't that relative to pride? Ahhh... words...

  13. :p Somehow I knew that.

    "The answer is always in the question itself." - Me :)

  14. wonderful. i'll try and remember that the next time i'm stuck on something.
  15. Hmmmmmm,

    How many seeds can a one legged monkey named publias stomp out of a dill pickle?

    sorry buddy but I had to :)

    PEACE and good-trading,

    BTW; I liked that other thread you started tonight, wanted to respond ---> but I could not tear myself away from my new computer game I HAD TO GET THE BYZANTINES!
  16. The height that a trader allows his pride to reach shall be measured by the virtue of the trader's ability to forgive the market’s arrogance that serves to teach.
  17. I thought the answer to the whole pride thing is that you should be aware of it. Once you are are aware of it, it sort of becomes silly. If you are self reflective enough you realize that you really have nothing to be prideful about. A western religion guy/gal would owe it all to god, and non-believer would realize he is just a product of his circumstances and environment and the eastern guy would realize their is really nothing to it. (editors note--I will defer thoughts on eastern stuff to J Commisso because pinning down eastern thought is like trying to catch something subatomic with an unstrung racquet).
  18. I agree. Pride's destructiveness is related to the object of pride. If the object is a virtue...

    Nice and honorable measure, Rogue.

  19. Pride is an illusion. A trick and a trap.
  20. Pride ---> Self-esteem ----> Confidence.

    From all the profitable traders I've met, they have confidence. I feel it's something you need. It's one of the factors needed to overcome fear.
  21. Pride, as I understand the word, is perpetuated by the ego's attachment to extrinsic circumstances.

    The wise trader will draw a clear and definite line between the external and the internal.

    Excessive pride will make a trader hard and rigid; to reach a state of harmony a trader must stay light and fluid.
  22. The entire quotation is instructive:" Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18.

    I think it refers to an arrogant, know-it-all attitude that does not admit the possibility of error. This type of destructive pride can be distinguished from self-respect. Someone who takes "pride" in his work, for example, really is exhibiting self-respect.
  23. Any emotion whether its pride, fear, greed is a handicap for traders.

    The unattached unemotional mind is really the key to success here.

    One must see trading as a game, a mere chessmatch and the outcome has no personal or hold on a person everyday life.

    If you lose a chessmatch you say good game, and start a new one. It should be as simple as that.
  24. Amen bro.
  25. great post!!!! why is this one of my hardest lessons? the market has already humbled me for almost 5 years. do they have 12 step programs for pride/egos?????
  26. Dance with the lady you took to the ball.
    If it was pride that got you there, dance with it.
    If you asked humility to go with you
    Why start fooling around with some other broad?
  27. "Pride goeth before destruction?" Is religion allowed on this thread?
  28. Re: Another good thread.

    Originally posted by Josh_B
    Most of the good traders understand that their self worth is not identified or defined by their net worth.

    Pride should not be a part of the trading equation.


    great post!!!! why is this one of my hardest lessons? the market has already humbled me for almost 5 years. do they have 12 step programs for pride/egos?????

    That is a tough one. For most of us we live in a country that is the symbol of capitalism, material possessions take high priority from a very young age. As a society we seem to value quantity over quality. Consumerism, marketing, the more the better etc, is being programmed into population from early age. We seem to equate who we are by what and how many cars we drive, how many vacation houses we have, how many digits our asset statement shows at the bottom.

    On top of it, trading attracts many people who are driven, go getters, ppl who want to control their destiny generally type A individuals.

    And yet with trading, some of the exact opposite beliefs and qualities seem more necessary in order for one to successful at it.

    It's simple but not as easy at it seems.