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Plame under oath

  1. Valerie Plame is taking a flame thrower to her critics in her testimony in front of the House committee this morning.

    So far she's testified that:
    1) she was in fact a covert agent on June 13. The day before Novak's column came out.
    2) that under no circumstances did she suggest or authorize Joe Wilson to Niger. And that suggestion in the Senate Report that Wilson went to Niger under her authority and supervision is flat wrong and was added after the fact to the Senate Report by 3 republican Senators.

    One thing is for sure....someone is full of shit.
    We shall see.
  2. If her testimony is indeed truthful then I for one will be eating my hat.

  3. "Congressman, my husband comes from a strong Republican family, but I'm sure he is a Democrat now."

    Who's the idiot that asked the question?
  4. Sounds like Clintonesque phrasing. Don't think she wasn't coached extensively for this testimony.

    It's pretty clear from documentary evidence that (1) she was not covert, as the law defines it, and (2) she used or abused her position to get her husband the trip to Niger.

    This whole "retaliatory exposure" myth has a life of its own. It shows the power of the media that if they repeat something enough, it becomes accepted as fact. It is pretty clear that the true story is that the White House was blindsided by Wilson and his claims that Cheney's office had sent him on the trip. The fact that his wife got him the gig was highly relevant to his credibility. He wasn't some CIA asset but merely an unemployed guy with time on his hands. Moreover, he apparently came back form Africa with an entirelydifferent story than the one he wrote up in the NYT when he had joined Kerry's campaign.

    For me, this whole episode illustrates two things. One, the White House is full of idiots who allowed themselves to be panicked by the CIA into a moronic special prosecutor investigation. Two, the CIA is filled with highly partisan activists who are incompetent at their day jobs but see nothing improper in absuing their positions to undermine the administration. If they did it to Venezuela the media and liberals would be in an uproar but it's ok if it's directed at a republican president.

    When the history of the failed Bush presidency is written, his inability to get control over the CIA should emerge as a major theme. Basically, everything from 9/11 to Iraq involves varying levels of CIA incompetency, with some major assistance from the boobs at the FBI. This is not meant to exonerate Bush. He is the one who failed to manage the agency. He takes the blame.
  5. Very interesting exchange today. Now if Director CIA Hayden will confirm this under oath things could get very interesting.


    CIA Director Hayden: ‘Wilson Was Covert’

    During House hearings today, Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) announced that CIA Director Gen. Michael Hayden recently told Reps. Henry Waxman (D-CA) and Silvestre Reyes (D-TX) that there was no doubt Victoria Plame Wilson was covert. Cummings — relaying what Waxman had told him — said that Gen. Hayden expressed clearly and directly, “Ms. Wilson was covert.”

    Cummings also asked Wilson to respond to the specific claim, made by VictoriaToensing and others, that Plame had lost her covert status because she “had not been stationed abroad within five years.” Cummings asked, “During the past five years, Ms. Plame, from today, did you conduct secret missions overseas?” She answered, “Yes I did, Congressman.”


    CUMMINGS: Ms. Wilson, first of all, thank you for your service. Ms. Wilson, even today your work for the CIA is so highly classified that we’re not permitted to discuss the details, but we can clarify one crucial point — whether you worked undercover for the CIA. You said your position was covert but I’ve heard others say you were not covert. In fact, one of the witnesses who will testify a little bit later, Victoria Toensing, is making that same argument. In an op-ed that appeared in the Washington Post on February 18, she says it quite bluntly. She says, “Plame was not covert. She worked at CIA headquarters and had not been stationed abroad within five years.” I know there are restrictions on what you can say today, but is Ms. Toensing’s statement correct?

    WILSON: Congressman, thank you for the opportunity. I know I’m here under oath, and I am here to say I was a covert officer of the Central Intelligence Agency. Just like a general is a general whether he is in the field in Iraq or Afghanistan, when he comes back to the Pentagon, he is still a general. In the same way, covert operations officers who are serving in the field, when they rotate back to a temporary assignment in Washington, they, too, are still covert.

    CUMMINGS: Is it possible that Ms. Toensing had more information than you do about your work or had access to secret document that you don’t?

    WILSON: I would find that highly unlikely, congressman, because much of that information about my career is still classified.

    CUMMINGS: On Wednesday night, I know that Mr. Waxman, our chair, and Congressman Reyes, the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, spoke personally with General Hayden, the head of the CIA. And Mr. Waxman told me that Gen. Hayden said clearly and directly, “Ms. Wilson was covert.” There was no doubt about it. By the way, the CIA has authorized us to be able to say that. In addition, I understand that Chairman Waxman sent his opening statement over to the CIA to be cleared and to make sure that it was accurate. In it, he said, “Ms. Wilson was a covert employee of the CIA.” “Ms. Wilson was undercover.” The CIA cleared these statements. I emphasize all of this because I know that there are people who are still trying to suggest that what seems absolutely clear isn’t really true and that you weren’t covert. And I think one of the things we need to do in this hearing is make sure there isn’t any ambiguity on this point. Just three more questions, did you hold this covert status at the time of the leak? Did you — the covert status at the time of the leak?

    WILSON: Yes I did, congressman. Yes.

    CUMMINGS: Number two, the Identities Protection Act refers to travel outside the United States within the last five years. Let me ask you this question. Again, we don’t want classified information, dates, locations, or any other details. During the past five years, Ms. Plame, from today, did you conduct secret missions overseas?

    WILSON: Yes I did, congressman.

    CUMMINGS: Finally, so as to be clear for the record, you were a covert CIA employee and within the past five years from today, you went on secret missions outside the United States. Is that correct?

    WILSON: That is correct, congressman.

    CUMMINGS: I want to thank you and I hope this committee now has cleared up the issue of covert, whether Ms. Plame was a covert
  6. I have to wonder if they are using the term "covert" in the same way as the statute. Because a number of people are on record as saying she was not covert. How can someone who drives in the main gate in Langley every morning be covert? Her analogy to being a general in the army is not the way the statute defines covert status. I would think a better analogy would be to a soldier serving in a combat zone.

    Anyway, I could be dead wrong about it, and maybe she was considered covert. I will be interested to see what Victoria Toensing has to say. She is a high profile Washington lawyer and her husband was the US Attorney for the District of Columbia.
  7. On what planet would it be even remotely relevant what Toesing thinks? From what I understand she helped write the applicable law...but she wouldn't know jack squat about Plame's status or her recent operational profile as they are classified.

    What we have so far is

    1) Plame's testimony under oath stating that she was covert

    2) and a claim, reportedly from the DCI confirming her status as covert.

  8. yea,yea,blah,blah who's listening anyway. Someone post a pic of her,,,she's HOT!!!:D
  9. Did exposing Plame's identity cause the death(s) of other operatives that we have overseas? I think that is something the Congress should take a very close look at. These operatives may have been moles planted by the CIA and exposing her blew their covers and perhaps resulted in deaths or something severe. If that is the case, then all the wrong doers should be charged with treason and prosecuted likewise.
  10. You got some kinda libido for an old timer there aft gunner(guffaw)(rolls eyes).

  11. Those eyes will really be rollin when I tatoo ya with a roundhouse that would make big George Foreman jealous.

    Anytime,anywhere Skidsvodka.

  12. LMAO

    What punkass bitch you must be to make up your little make believe internet persona then cry like girl when someone calls you on your bullshit.


  13. cheney n rove must have soiled in their depends this morning.
  14. Stupid cunt Vicki Toensing:

    Dana Priest's Meet Victoria Toensing Live Chat (20Feb2007)

    New York: "Ms. Toensing, if no government official is willing to discuss Plame's job or covert/classified status how can you state with certainty that she wasn't covert? Has any government official told you what her status was? What position would you take if you were shown, by someone you trust, that she was covert?"

    Victoria Toensing: "Well, if I had evidence that she was covert I certainly would respect that, but she did not have a foreign assignment within five years of publication. Wilson stated that in his book -- he states that they returned to the United States sometime in 1997, so six years. The definition of "covert agent," a person whose identity is to be protected, is someone who has been overseas in the past five years. The five years were added to protect sources the person would have worked with."

    So in the Toensing mindset, if the Wilsons changed their permanent address from overseas back to the US in 1997, that precludes Plame from EVER AGAIN going back overseas for the CIA on a temporary and SECRET assignment. EVER!!!!

    And you rightwingers wonder why the rest of us have so little respect for your intellect.
  15. Some mouthbreather from Georgia. He thought it was REAL IMPORTANT to get the Wilsons' political affiliations on the record. :p
  16. lol, rightwingers my ass.....the neocons have more in common with the communists than the far left...infact the neocon movement was a leftist movement hijacked by a group of lunatics, called 'the crazies' by many insiders. ET's neocons are a laugh, typical orwellian mentality: war is peace, ignorance is knowledge and....socialism is conservatism. and they really believe in this shit, and call u a moonbat...even if u are a real conservative that voted republican or in my case the center-right for all my life.
  17. more about plame....and sibel edmond:

    What the heck is Sibel Edmonds' Case about? And why should I care?

    Daily Kos
    Friday, March 16, 2007

    As part of our campaign this week to call for hearings into Sibel Edmonds case, below the fold is a short-as-possible piece which hopes to answer the burning question in Sibel's case: What the heck is her case about?

    For a longer version, see my recent interview with Scott Horton

    Please call the offices of Congressmen Waxman - (202) 225-3976 - and Conyers - (202) 225-5126 - demanding open hearings into Sibel Edmonds' case and the State Secrets Privilege.

    * lukery's diary :: ::

    Sibel Edmonds' case is about the intersection of illegal arms trafficking, heroin trafficking, money laundering, terrorist activities and the corruption of many "highly-recognizable, highly-known names" in and around the US government. Sibel says that the people involved will go straight to prison if we can get hearings into her case. Richard Perle, in prison. Douglas Feith, in prison. Dennis Hastert, in prison. Marc Grossman, in prison.

    According to Sibel, the best place to begin trying to understand the case is a recent articleby Phil Giraldi in the American Conservative. Sibel says"Giraldi has it 100% right; this I consider the most accurate summary of my case."

    Giraldi writes:

    "Sibel Edmonds... could provide a major insight into how neoconservatives distort US foreign policy and enrich themselves at the same time. On one level, her story appears straightforward: several Turkish lobbying groups allegedly bribed congressmen to support policies favourable to Ankara. But beyond that, the Edmonds revelations become more serpentine and appear to involve AIPAC, Israel and a number of leading neoconservatives who have profited from the Turkish connection.
    Turkey benefits from the relationship by securing general benevolence and increased aid from the US Congress - as well as access to otherwise unattainable military technology. The Turkish General Staff has a particular interest because much of the military spending is channeled through companies in which the generals have a financial stake, making for a very cozy and comfortable business arrangement. The commercial interest has also fostered close political ties, with the American Turkish Council, American Turkish Cultural Alliance and the Assembly of Turkish American Associations all developing warm relationships with AIPAC and other Jewish and Israel advocacy groups throughout the US.

    Someone has to be in the middle to keep the happy affair going, so enter the neocons, intent on securing Israel against all comers and also keen to turn a dollar."

    Giraldi goes on to list some neocons who are "linked to Turkey" - Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, Marc Grossman, Eric Edelman, and Stephen Solarz - and he suggests that they "enrich themselves" via drug trafficking and arms dealing.

    The American Turkish Council (ATC)
    The main Turkish lobbying group in the US is an organization called the American Turkish Council (ATC) - one of the most powerful lobby groups in the country. The ATC is heavily stacked with former government officials - statesmen, lobbyists and 'dime a dozen generals' - lobbyists and representatives of the military-industrial-complex (MIC). Brent Scowcroft is the chairman, and heavy hitters from Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Boeing, Northrup Grumman and other 'defense' contractors populate the board.

    It's perhaps not surprising, then, that Turkey is a major recipient of US military aid - running to the billions of dollars - with muchof it financed by the US taxpayer. Giraldi suggests in his article that this largesse appears to be the result of bribes paid to congressmen - a suggestion that shouldn't surprise anyone - but there's much more to the story than the usual Iron Triangle / Revolving Door story that we're all familiar with.

    In a 10-page articlein Vanity Fair on Sibel's case, the ATC is described as "a front for criminal activity" involving "large-scale drug deals and of selling classified military technologies to the highest bidder." We'll discuss the drug side of the story shortly, but let's first take a quick look at the military technology element - not only are the MIC contractors bribing congress to ensure that military aid flows to Turkey (and Israel), the Turks and the Israelis are also illegally selling that technology to the highest bidder - which inevitably includes America's enemies, States, and terrorist groups.

    Sibel's case also involves the nuclear black market - some Turkish members of the ATC have supplied Pakistan's A.Q. Khan network with hardware, as have American companies that Sibel overheard on the wiretaps. Perhaps even more disturbing, as reportedin Vanity Fair, other wiretaps indicate that "Turkish groups had been installing doctoral students at U.S. research institutions in order to acquire information about black market nuclear weapons." Daniel Ellsberg saysthat, according to Sibel, bribes were paid to people at the State Department to facilitate this activity.

    These are extraordinary claims, of course, and we have a lot of evidence to support the claims - including, but not limited to, the fact that Valerie Plame's front company, Brewster Jennings, had been conducting a counter-intelligence operation against the ATC for years.

    One very interesting aspect of Sibel's case that has not really gained traction is that while the ATC is understood to be the key focus of her case, it appears that AIPAC is equally involved. In a terrific 2005 interviewwith Chris Deliso, Sibel said:

    Essentially, there is only one investigation – a very big one, an all-inclusive one... But I can tell you there are a lot of people involved, a lot of ranking officials, and a lot of illegal activities that include multi-billion-dollar drug-smuggling operations, black-market nuclear sales to terrorists and unsavory regimes, you name it... You can start from the AIPAC angle. You can start from the Plame case. You can start from my case. They all end up going to the same place, and they revolve around the same nucleus of people.

    And she went a little bit further in a great interviewwith David Swanson this week:

    "AIPAC helped form the American Turkish Council - look at the board members, look at the people. You will see the same people involved in both fronts, because it is the same operation."

    Reading between the lines (in a number of different places), it appears that Sibel was actively involved in 'the AIPAC investigation' as well as the investigation into the ATC. As she says, both the ATC and AIPAC are both 'fronts' for the 'same (criminal) operation.'

    Drug Trafficking.
    As I document in "Sibel Edmonds & the Neocons' Turkish Gravy-Train," Afghanistan supplies almost 90% of the world's heroin, and most of that goes straight to Turkey where it is processed, packaged, warehoused, and then re-exported to other countries for final consumption. Turkey supplies approximately 80% of Europe's heroin, and 15% of heroin in the US - worth approximately $40 billion at street prices.

    Turkey is widely acknowledged to be controlled by a "Deep State." In 1996, a deadly car crash at a place called Susurluk blew this out into the open. In the car were four people who probably shouldn't have been in the car together:

    "an MP, a police chief, a beauty queen and her lover, a top Turkish gangster and hitman called Abdullah Catli... Catli, a heroin trafficker on Interpol’s wanted list, was carrying a diplomatic passport signed by none other than the Turkish Interior Minister himself.
    The Susurluk Incident became Turkey’s Watergate, exposing the deep links between the Turkish state, terrorists and drug traffickers. It revealed what Turks call the Gizli Devlet, or Deep State – the politicians, military officers and intelligence officials who worked with drug bosses to move drugs from Afghanistan into Europe."

    Sibel spells it out:

    "The Turkish government, MIT and the Turkish military, not only sanctions, but also actively participates in and oversees the narcotics activities and networks."

    As I outlined in the curiously-titled "Sibel Edmonds: America's Watergate," Sibel's case demonstrates that Turkey's Deep State 'owns' large parts of the American establishment, to the point where it appears that there also is a 'Deep State' in the US as well. ATC/AIPAC appear to be headquarters for this Deep State in the US, a cozy club where drug dealers, weapons traffickers and past-and-present government officials coexist. Happily!

    And if that's not bad enough, we also know that:

    "Heroin trafficking is also the main source of funding for the al-Qaeda terrorists. A Time Magazine articlein August 2004 reported that al-Qaeda has established a smuggling network that is peddling Afghan heroin to buyers across the Middle East, Asia, and Europe, and in turn is using the drug revenues to purchase weapons and explosives. The article states: "...al-Qaeda and its Taliban allies are increasingly financing operations with opium sales. Anti-drug officials in Afghanistan have no hard figures on how much al-Qaeda and the Taliban are earning from drugs, but conservative estimates run into tens of millions of dollars."

    That is, our Turkish Deep State friends, the people we are directly providing with weapons, are outsourcing some of their distribution activities to al-Qaeda and the Taliban (and, while we're at it, to the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA.))

    continue [...]
  18. Man, the revisionists here fall all over themselves trying to disavow their own. For the record, the word "neocon" means "new CONservative", as opposed to the "old conservatives" who wanted a more isolationist foreign policy. There is no "lefty" basis to wars of pre-emption other than in your delusions.

    Face it, khan-servative, Republican or whatever you call yourself, this is YOUR SIDE'S unholy mess.

    So be a man and own up to it, if that's possible.
  19. [...]

    When we are discussing issues such as al-Qaeda smuggling heroin through Afghanistan and the other 'Stans, sometimes it can seem remote and distant, so let's come back to something more concrete. In Adrian Gatton's terrific recent article, The Susurluk Legacy, he quotes Huseyin Baybasin, a Turkish heroin kingpin who is now in jail in Holland:

    "I handled the drugs which came through the channel of the Turkish Consulate in England... I was with the Mafia but I was carrying this out with the same Mafia group in which the rulers of Turkey were part."

    Gatton also describes how anyone in the UK government who dared speak about the issue were immediately rebuked by the Foreign Office (the UK equivalent of the State Department.)

    The parallels with Sibel's case couldn't be clearer. As 60 Minutes first reported (youtube) in 2002, and Vanity Fair later reported, the Turkish Embassy was directing a lot of the heroin trafficking activity - in conjunction with people at the ATC.

    "Sibel also recalled hearing wiretaps indicating that Turkish Embassy targets frequently spoke to staff members at the A.T.C.
    In her secure testimony, Edmonds disclosed some of what she recalled hearing... Many (calls) involved an F.B.I. target at (Chicago's) large Turkish Consulate... Some of the calls reportedly contained what sounded like references to large scale drug shipments and other crimes."

    And just as the UK Foreign Office silenced anyone in the UK who tried to speak out, Sibel says:

    The Department of State is easily the most corrupted of the major government agencies.
    In some cases where the FBI stumbles upon evidence of high-level officials being involved in drug-smuggling, they're even prevented from sharing it with the DEA [Drug Enforcement Agency]. The Department of State just comes in and says, "Leave it."

    Elsewhere, Sibel says:

    "For years and years, information and evidence being collected by the counterintelligence operations of certain U.S. intelligence and law enforcement agencies has been prevented from being transferred to criminal and narcotics divisions, and from being shared with the Drug Enforcement Agency and others with prosecutorial power. Those with direct knowledge have been prevented from making this information available and public by various gag orders and invocation of the State Secrets Privilege. Why?"

    Pay attention here, because the ATC is where the worlds of the MIC and the heroin trafficking collide. One of the key Turkish interfaces at the ATC is the Turkish Generals - people that Giraldi says own a stake in the companies through which the military spending is channeled. As described earlier, these exact same people, the Turkish Deep State, also control much of the global heroin market. In between the MIC and the heroin traffickers - are the"neoconservatives (who) distort US foreign policy and enrich themselves at the same time."

    One of the difficulties in trying to unravel the Sibel Edmonds case is that we aren't sure where one case ends and another begins. We know that some of the wiretaps were from the ATC, and some from the Turkish embassy in DC, and some from the embassy in Chicago. We also know that many of the wiretaps involve conversations between the embassies and the ATC.
    Some of the wiretaps relate to drug trafficking, some relate to the nuclear black market and other weapons trafficking, and some refer to terrorist activity - including 9/11.

    Perhaps it's not surprising, then, when she says:

    You have the same players when you look into these activities at high-levels you come across the same players, they are the same people.

    Those 'same people' - at least on the American side - according to Giraldi, appear to be Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, Marc Grossman, Eric Edelman, and Stephen Solarz. It appears that we can also add William Cohen and Joseph Ralston - and Dennis Hastert - to that roster, and I'm sure there are a few more that haven't yet been publicly identified.

    If what Sibel says is true, and her claims are all backed by documents and wiretaps, and also backed up by other agents who have filed similar complaints, and are ready and willing to testify. All of these people should be in jail. For a long, long time.

    Congress must hold hearings to get to the bottom of these crimes. If you agree, please call Congress, today, and demand public, open hearings.
  20. lol, i am not even american, i vote the right in my country and rightly so, when the other choice is the communists and more taxes. i am saying that the neoconservatism got nothing to do with real conservatism and the republican party: it has been hijacked by a bunch of sociopaths with socialist ideas. go look up who founded and how was founded the neocon movement...look up who's kristol and what were his father's political views. go search for ron paul speech [if u can find it, now censored from cspan] about the neocons and their macchiavellian-straussian views.
  21. Who looks more like a liar?

    <img src=http://www.bartcop.com/valerie_plame_book.jpg>

    <img src=http://www.lucianne.com/routine/images/07-15-05.jpg>

    <img src=http://www.christers.net/veeps/dick-cheney-2.jpg>

    <img src=http://www.caymannetnews.com/Archive/Archive%20Articles/May%202003/Issue%20399%20Thu/Images/Condoleezza%20Rice.jpg>
  22. I'd say the good looking blond with the phoney smile. You know, the one that was the secret agent with the CIA. You know, that organization where lying is seen not only as an asset, but a requirement. But, to be "honest", I'd say they're all lying through their teeth more often than not. Afterall, they're all involved in politics. Soooo Mr. Z, what's your point?
  23. Somebody is lying, you make up your own mind who has the most to lie for...

  24. Is this lying captain still claiming that he's a democrat? He must been sent by the Republicans on a covert mission.
  25. i dont know who is lying. i do know that plame is one hot spy. if she was ugly, she wouldn't be getting any sympathy or attention from the media or politicians.
  26. It has always amazed me that no-one went down for treason in this Plame case. Do you in the USA have 'treason' in your list of offences? Fancy publically outing a covert CIA operative during The War on Terror.

    No surprise certain people have shut their usually highly opinionated ideological mouths during this hearing.

    Normally I'm used to hearing Rumsfeld, Rice, Rove, Cheney etc blathering their misguided and distorted petty and homespun so called 'truths'.
  27. Internet persona huh,, hmmm...How about a bareknuckle or with gloves 10 rounder at the gym of your choice. ET can film the whole thing and post it here. Of course friendly wagers will be accepted. I'll give you a sporting chance by going one handed every other round. Make sure your mom gives permission, don't want to see you get grounded and lose your computer privileges.
  28. i aint been on my home comp in a month which is hows comes i aint been postin. alls i needs to do is click on renniks posts to get caught up, lmao.

    the shack

    ps. hey gramps i doubt youll need one for this cat, but i'd be honoered to be the cut man in your corner:D
  29. and i wonder why it is not enough that hadyn says she
    was ...
  30. Maybe because we only have hearsay claiming he said that. Let him get in front of the Committee and say that they have determined within the definitions of the Act that she was covert at the time of the Novak column. All we have now is a bunch of double hearsay from people I wouldn't trust.
  31. I don't think the administration's behavior is excusable here, but I have a hard time believing an agent who was truly "covert" would have a desk job at Langley.
  32. i believe her, she's a babe! i got an undercover assignment for her!
  33. I know many of you just hate Republicans in general and suspend your critical abilities when they are being attacked. But I have to say I am surprised how easily duped most of you seem to be.

    This Plame affair is a classic Washington media circus, orchestrated by a dirtbag socialist congressman, Henry Waxman, who has made a career out of this sort of thing. You might wonder why there are never media circuses when Republicans are in charge. The simple answer is the mainstream media simply ignore or downplay Republican-led investigations. It is instructive that this story is running in parallel with the US Attorneys "scandal", another made for TV media circus, full of hypocritical chest thumping.

    I give Waxman credit for knowing how to stage manage a media circus. Let's leave aside the spectacle of leftwing democrats, who have done more to destroy the effectiveness of the CIA than the KGB ever did, waxing indignant about secret assets being burned. How many have they burned over the years via leaks, investigations, etc? No one gives a damn. Plame's testimony was beautifully coached and managed. She looked as great as that school teacher who did her students, a hot middle aged blond. She presented herself as an heroic lone woman, risking her life for her country, only to be cruelly undermined by the evil KKKarl Rove out of mean spirited partisan rancor. Why she had nothing to do with her husband getting that assignment, she asserted in true Clintonian innocence. (I guess the memo she wrote recommending him was faked up by Rove too.)

    And she was too "covert", she claimed. Of course, she had to reinvent a new meaning of the word. She claimed that, like a general, once covert, always covert. As Toensing pointed out, that is not what the statue says, so all her claims about covertness really don't mean much. When asked about the law, she batted her eyelashes and murmurred that she wasn't a lawyer, so she couldn't say.

    I hate to spoil the fun, but consider a couple of facts. First, it is clear she pushed her husband for the assignment. There are documents that prove that. Why else would the agency send some broken-down ex-diplomat with no expertise on such a mission. What does it say about the CIA that they didn't have some better way of tracking this down? What does it say that they didn't use minimal spycraft and get him to sign a confidentiality agreement so he couldn't go off writing books and giving speeches about his "secret" mission? Was it just their standard incompetency or did Plame have allies in trying to misuse her position for partisan ( and now financial) purposes?

    Now consider how she and her husband labored to protect her supposed "covert" status. She drove through the main gate at Langley every morning, hardly SOP for covert operatives. Do you honestly think our enemies don't video everyone who comes and goes there? I drive past it several times a week. It is on a busy public street, not exactly a secret who comes and goes.

    She contributed to the Gore campaign in the name of her supposed cover employer. Is that how an agent maintains cover, to make fraudulent claims on public disclosure forms? How about her husband? Remember, none of this came out until he wrote his NYT editorial, shortly before joining the Kerry campaign. If your wife is a secret agent, are you protecting her cover by starting a nasty political fight over the very assignment she sent you on? Wasn't it totally predictable that someone would ask, who is this bozo and who sent him to africa?

    She complained that the adminsitration tried to "discredit " her husband. That was the one thing she said that was true. What are they supposed to do, agree with him that they were lying? The ultimate irony of course is that his mission proved nothing, other than perhaps government officials in Niger didn't immediately implicate themselves in WMD proliferation. He certainly didn't disprove the central contention, which was that an Iraq delegation headed by a nuclear scientist made a trade visit to Niger.

    As a political observer I have mixed feelings. I see this whole episode as basically a joke played on rubes like most of you with the media's help. I feel sorry for Scooter Libby, whose name will forever be used as a synonym for "fall guy." But I do admire Waxman for being a damn effective hitman. And you have to admire the Wilson/Plames. They are the toast of Georgetown and LA, have banked millions off this thing and will get rich for years off it.
  34. "The simple answer is the mainstream media simply ignore or downplay Republican-led investigations."

    Oh yeah, no one knew about the Clinton Republican-led investigations and impeachment process, and the main stream media didn't cover it, and there was no media circus surrounding it...

    "But I do admire Waxman for being a damn effective hitman. And you have to admire the Wilson/Plames. They are the toast of Georgetown and LA, have banked millions off this thing and will get rich for years off it."

    You deride these people, then admire them?


  35. the posts in this thread illustrate the number of simpletons in the repugnant/gop party.
  36. Wow, we must have an expert on covert operations here. Why do Republican supporters cut their IQ's by half whenever their propaganda conflicts with reality?

    Valerie Plame was an "energy analyst" for "Brewster Jennings & Associates." When her cover was blown, it also blew the cover for the front company where she had "a desk job," and everyone working in Brewster Jennings & Associates was put in danger. We have no idea how large the damage was. This was not the case of just outing a single agent. This sabotaged the whole proliferation operation, when we were facing serious threats from Iran, North Korea, and Pakistan. How can this not be treason?
  37. People's lives may have been put in danger or it may have cost some covert operatives, aka, US moles, their lives. It is plain treason. I hope the long arm of the law will get those culprits and punish them.
  38. I don't like the characterization of Libby as a "fall guy."

    He's a perjurer. Just as Clinton should've been impeached for perjury, Libby should go to jail for it.

    Perjury a VERY serious matter. Society can't allow miscarriages of justice to occur because of people lying their asses off under oath. Both Clinton and Libby were attorneys. Figures.

    I know the SP looked real hard at the question of Plame's covert status and concluded there was no violation of the law in that specific regard.

    I don't know the basis for why the decision to not prosecute was made. There's several possible reasons.

    1. Outing is only a crime if you know the person you're outing is covert. I suppose a fair prosecutor would demand proof of a purposeful outing before he would just ipso facto argue motive to a jury.

    2. No one would talk. I presume Plame, Wilson and half the CIA were interviewed by the SP but we don't know what questions (or if any) went unanswered on the basis of "classified." It's possible the SP couldn't adequately ascertain Plame's true status.

    3. Plame's statement on the Hill lacked candor. AAA's right. She used legalese qualifiers. I don't trust hot, blonde CIA agents. :p

    I know the SP is a class act. He's very much like Kevin Costner's portrayal of Elliot Ness in the Untouchables. He fancies himself as Ness. He's in Chicago to go after every politician he can. He's nailed guy's from both parties equally. (although there's a zillion Dem's in City Hall about to go down.) I'd say zero chance he could be bought off.
  39. This is correct.

    And it can go much deeper than just that. Suppose Plame had a source - say Sheik Ali Baba. Now the home country of the sheik knows he's dirty, and many of his 'friends' may be too. Now not only that, but the person NOW running the Sheik is suspect. And the same for any other people Plame may have had, and their 'friends' etc, etc.

    I think this is where the term 'once covert, always covert' comes from.....
  40. same old thing. each of us believes one side in full with
    the others being a bunch of lyers. i am a natural fan of
    democratic ideas, so i am biased. i simply believe that
    the current administration is willing to do each and every
    thing to maintain power. i believe valerie plame and i
    do not believe the reps. it is sad, since, when i think
    about it, i don't know too much of the true facts. but
    i can't get over the hypocrisy of the clinton impeachment,
    the embarrassing rep misconduct at the 2000 election,
    the terrible management around katrina, the idiocy of
    christian fundamentalists around darwin and i have not
    even mentioned iraq or the decider himself.

    in my eyes reps have no values besides power and money,
    or they have stupid ideas like 7daycreation. hypocrites
    or dumb. that's what it boils down to in my eyes. i don't
    believe that the dems are all nicest angels you could
    think of, but i still think they use means for reason,
    while the reps are fond of the means themselves.

    so we will get back and forth. the lefties, like myself,
    will remain lefties, and same with the righties. pretty
    stable world.
  41. Sarbanes is right - it's "an administration of bullies."

    That part about Rove saying "Plame is fair game" is troubling too.
  42. Haroki,

    It is sad that Plame's "secret life" was so blatantly exposed. There may be a technicality here, but the fact is that before bob novak ran his column, very few people knew that she was a spook. That perhaps protected that Alibaba and his runners. Now that she is exposed, the whole network is in mortal danger. It is sad.
  44. I think if you look at exactly what Libby said, you will find that he was pretty equivocal. His mistake was to refuse to leave it at "I don't recall." He said he wasn't sure then volunteered stuff. At the end of the day, it came down to him and a few reporters disagreeing about the details of phone conversations.

    I have to disagree with you about Fitzgerald. He may be hot stuff in Chicago, but he sounded like a moron every time he opened his mouth here. He was in way over his head, which probably wouldn't take much. He found out who leaked Plame's name the first day of the investigation. A prosecutor with any judgment should have ended matters right there. But he knew that wouldn't get him the national exposure and media adulation he evidently lusted for, so he kept it going for months, spending millions in a vain effort to entrap White House officials. Finally he had to give up and rather than slink back to Chicago empty-handed, he pulled in Libby and ruined him over a few phone calls. About the level of professionalism I'd expect from a guy who blew a terrorism investigation when someone on his staff(since no one was ever fired over it , who do you think it was?) leaked details to Judith Miller of the NYT.
  45. from opinionjournal.com

    "Valerie Plame testified she did not know whether she was a "covert" CIA agent as defined under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act in 2003, when her supposedly secret identity surfaced. Reader Jim Lucas makes a crucial point that we missed:

    The Intelligence Identities Protection Act makes it a federal crime to intentionally reveal the identity of an agent whom one knows to be covert. So how can anyone be accused of knowingly revealing Valerie Plame's identity as a covert agent if Valerie Plame herself didn't know if she was covert according to the law?

    That pretty much settles the question, doesn't it? If Plame's status was secret even from herself, how could "leaker" Richard Armitage or "perjurer" Scooter Libby possibly have known?"
  46. Maybe you shouldn't expose your stupidity by acting like you understand American politics. The neocons HERE are righties. That's why they are in the Republican Party. Your little delusional conspiracy that a bunch of radical "lefties" highjacked the conservative party HERE IN AMERICA without anybody else but YOU noticing, borders on the psychotic, to put it mildly.

    If you knew anything about American neocons, you would know that they are as far from socialists as can be. They are in fact CORPORATISTS aka fascists. Why the fuck else would they be trying to PRIVATIZE everything?

    Idiots should know when to stop talking out of their asses.
  47. Screw that. Street brawl. Why is it that pussies always make these conditions? How about a badminton game? This ain't Burr vs. Hamilton. :p
  48. You need to do a little research yourself, and you would see that he is basically correct. The original neo-cons were liberal jews who joined the republican party because of the democrats' appeasement of the Soviet Union and their failure to address the Soviets' perseution of jews. Traditional conservatives like Pat Buchanan have been their arch enemies in the Republican Party for decades. You can look up Pat's opinion pieces and find dozens of attacks on them. The neocons primary policy interest has been Israel, and many conservatives have accused them of subordinating the US' interests to those of Israel.

    The failure of the Iraq war has severely discredited the neocon wing of the republican party, but they remain quite powerful in the media.